HL Deb 16 July 1996 vol 574 cc806-9

Earl Ferrers rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 12th June be approved [23rd Report from the Joint Committee].

The noble Earl said: My Lords, I beg to move. This order gives effect to the Local Government Commission's recommendations that Halton and Warrington should become unitary authorities on their existing boundaries. The rest of Cheshire will retain the existing two-tier structure of local government.

The structural change will take effect on 1st April 1998. We shall be making separate provision for ceremonial arrangements, under which Halton and Warrington will be deemed to be part of Cheshire.

There will be all-out elections to Halton and Warrington Borough Councils in May 1997, after which the order provides for each council to return to its regular electoral cycle.

The order provides for Halton and Warrington Borough Councils each to prepare a unitary development plan. We agreed with the commission that it would be more suitable and convenient that strategic as well as local policies for each of these areas should be dealt with in one plan. Cheshire County Council will remain responsible for the structure plan covering the rest of the county area.

Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 12th June be approved [23rd Report from the Joint Committee].—(Earl Ferrers.)

Lord Rochester

My Lords, I am sorry to spoil the party but I wish to say a few words about this order. In a debate on the work of the Local Government Commission initiated by the noble Lord, Lord Cornwallis, in March 1994, I said that, having lived in Cheshire for nearly 50 years, I thought that a sufficiently strong case had not been made for changing the existing local government two-tier structure.

I was pleased when the commission, under the chairmanship of Sir John Banham, recommended that there should be no change in the county structure. Nevertheless, the Government ordered further reviews in the case of both Halton and Warrington, despite the fact that the Secretary of State had earlier said that the views of local people were of paramount importance and that in a series of polls the great majority of people in both Halton and Warrington had made it plain that they were opposed to any change in the existing structure.

Now there is this order giving effect to the commission's final recommendation that Halton and Warrington should each be accorded unitary status. I feel bound to say that I deplore the Government's decision. However, the decision having been made, I feel that Cheshire County Council is to be applauded for having decided to co-operate with the two borough councils, thus ensuring a smooth and timely transfer of staff and services. I understand that the county council has already established good working relations with the two other councils and that detailed protocols have been agreed between the three authorities guiding their new relationships. Indeed, their leaders have jointly signed a declaration of commitment to that end.

I am glad that the order before us provides that it should not take effect until 1st April 1998. Even so, the task facing the three authorities is enormous and it has to be undertaken against a background of significant reductions in public expenditure. Therefore, I express the hope that the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, when he comes to reply in a moment, will agree to ask his right honourable friend the Secretary of State to consider sympathetically the case for providing all three of the reorganising councils with the additional resources that they will certainly need to achieve their joint purpose.

Lord Carlisle of Bucklow

My Lords, in speaking briefly in this debate I confess that I have somewhat mixed feelings. For 23 years in another place I represented in turn Runcorn—much of which now goes into the new unitary authority of Halton—and Warrington South, much of which also goes into the new unitary authority of Warrington. I am aware of the views of the political leaders in the Warrington area and of their desires in this field.

On the other hand, I have a sense of sadness in that, like the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, having lived all my life in Cheshire, I have a strong regard for the Cheshire County Council. Like him I was one of those Members of your Lordships' House who wrote to the Secretary of State urging that in Cheshire we should retain the status quo. Like him, I welcomed Sir John's original proposals and still believe that the vast majority of people who live in Cheshire as a whole wished to see that status quo retained.

Two points concern me. First, it is my genuine belief that Cheshire education authority is an education authority of an extremely high standard. The unitary authorities may not be able to provide the same width of services as Cheshire could. Secondly, I am concerned about the escalating cost of the reorganisation. Having said that, I realise, and repeat, particularly in relation to Warrington, that it is an extremely strong unit. It is an area, as the Member of Parliament for that constituency said in another place in a debate on the order, which has a strong community spirit. The two new towns have both been successful in encouraging inward investment into their areas. I have no doubt that they will do their best to make a great success of that unitary authority.

I believe that in relation to Halton the spirit of community between Widnes at one end and Runcorn New Town at the other may not be quite the same as that which applies within the borough of Warrington. Warrington probably never came to terms with Cheshire—at least I did not. I remember, and perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, remembers also, that just after our last local authority reorganisation it was said on the BBC that the Rugby League final would, as usual, be an all-Lancashire affair between Warrington and Widnes—some six months after Warrington and Widnes had been moved into Cheshire.

Cheshire is right to accept the decision that has been made. It has done so with good grace and it is clear, as the noble Lord said, that the areas are working together to achieve a successful handover of powers. Like the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, I ask my noble friend to confirm that the Government will assist in any way they can. Though it was not necessarily my choice, I wish both unitary authorities well in the future.

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I am grateful both to the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, and to my noble friend Lord Carlisle for the way in which they received this order. I appreciate too the sadness that they feel in that they felt that there would be no change and now there is to be change. For my noble friend who was a Member for a long while and has been associated with that part of the country for many years, any change of this kind is no doubt upsetting. However, I have no reason to believe—from what was said I am sure that my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, feel the same—that the changeover will not be successful. I agree that Cheshire County Council behaved in a most plausible way and that bodes well for the future.

The fact that the second revisitation—if I can so call it—of the commission occurred is the same as for Berkshire: that there seemed to be inconsistencies across the country about some areas that were made unitary authorities and some that were not. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State asked the commission under the new chairman to look at 21 of those district councils to see whether there was any inconsistency. He found that nine district councils ought to be made into unitary authorities, whereas the others should remain with the status quo. I can understand therefore the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, saying that from his point of view it was a pity that that happened.

I have no doubt that the new councils will do all that they can. Of course, as unitary authorities they will be a great deal closer to the people and do all that they can to serve those people to the best of their ability. Cheshire County Council's attitude since my right honourable friend the Secretary of State announced the decision is to be much applauded. It has been constructive rather than obstructive and I thank the council for that. The bids for financial support will be sympathetically received. That cannot be a carte blanche, but we shall certainly listen to their problems and see how we can deal with them. I commend the order to the House.

On Question, Motion agreed to.