Scotland: Police Protection Measures (Hansard, 31 January 1996)

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Scottish Office (The Earl of Lindsay)
My Lords, the Government fully support the development of protective equipment for the police in Scotland. The issue of such equipment is, however, the responsibility of chief constables.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for that reply. As trials 1451 with sprays are now to take place in England, can my noble friend say whether my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has considered with the Scottish police forces any similar personal protection, presuming that violence of a similar kind must also be expected in Scotland? Further, as regards special clothing, can my noble friend say whether protection from knife attacks has been less necessary since the successful knife amnesty in Strathclyde that took place three years ago?

The Earl of Lindsay
My Lords, my noble friend has raised two important points. The operational trials of CS incapacitant spray that he has heard about will in fact be started in England and Wales in March. The outcome of those trials will guide my right honourable friend the Secretary of State as to whether CS spray should be deployed in Scotland. If it should be, then it will be for the individual chief constables to judge where that will be necessary.
The recent knife amnesty in Strathclyde, to which my noble friend referred—called Operation Blade—was an outstanding success; indeed, 4,500 knives were surrendered. Moreover, there is evidence to show that there are now fewer knives on the streets. In fact, the attempted murder rate with knives fell by one-half during the operation. However, it should be pointed out that police officers will always have to face a degree of risk when going about their duties. Therefore, we shall continue to develop protective clothing. We shall also continue to supply officers with expandable batons and other such measures of protection.

§ Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the Question tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, is most timely because this is becoming a very important issue not only in Scotland but in Great Britain as a whole? I believe that it is a wise decision on the part of Scottish chief constables to await the results of the English experiment.
However, people speak perhaps too loosely about the use of CS gas spray. I understand that it has a range of about 15 or 16 feet. Indeed, there are great dangers both to the police and, perhaps, to innocent passers-by—in particular to children and people with breathing problems. Moreover, I believe that exposure to the gas can be most serious for pregnant women. The Minister said that the use of protective clothing for the police was being studied. I understand that such clothing would cost somewhere in the region of £350 per officer and that that would amount to something like £9 million for the whole of Scotland. Can the Minister say whether that money would be available to local authorities to enable them to equip the police for the very difficult job that they have to do?

The Earl of Lindsay
My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right to say that the use of CS sprays should be treated, and undertaken, with care. That is why we have operational trials starting in March in England and Wales, and that is why we are not pre-empting the results of those trials. Decisions will be made after the trials have been analysed. As the noble Lord pointed out, protective vests cost around £350.
1452 The deployment of police resources and the deployment of the budget is a matter for the police authorities and the chief constables. We in the Scottish Office would not seek to dictate to them how they should deploy those resources. However, I can tell the noble Lord that police resources will increase by 7.7 per cent. in this coming financial year as compared with the current financial year. Since 1979 expenditure on the police has risen by 57.3 per cent. in real terms.
We are committed to law and order in Scotland and we are determined to see more police officers on the heat. We have a commitment over the next three years to put an extra 500 police officers on the beat in Scotland.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, can my noble friend give the previous occasion when we really considered using water sprays as a cheap and effective way of discouraging violence? That would be particularly effective in the current cold weather.

The Earl of Lindsay
My Lords, I cannot tell my noble friend exactly when that matter was previously considered. However, we are especially anxious that the police authorities and chief constables have as much discretion at their disposal as possible to respond to the need as they think best.

§ Lord Merlyn-Rees
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I agree with him that the use of CS sprays, body armour and other such materials is a serious matter? I seek knowledge on it all the time. Is the Minister saying that this is only an operational matter and that it is not something for the Secretary of State for Scotland?

The Earl of Lindsay
My Lords, it is up to the chief constables and the police authorities, who best understand the challenge with which they have to cope in their areas, to consider what resources to deploy and what equipment to supply to their police officers. Our job is to make sure that they have the necessary financial resources with which to meet that challenge. As I have said, since 1979 financial resources for the police have risen by 57.3 per cent. in real terms. We now have 15 per cent. more police officers on the streets. We have a commitment to increase that number yet further in coming years. Protective clothing poses special practical problems. To have a protective vest, which is both knife resistant and bullet resistant and light and flexible enough to wear for any length of time while on operational duty, demands a material which has not yet been properly developed