HL Deb 17 January 1996 vol 568 cc596-7

3 p.m.

The Viscount of Falkland asked Her Majesty's Government:

How many people are presently serving terms of imprisonment for failure to pay fines imposed for not having a current television licence.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of National Heritage (Lord Inglewood)

My Lords, on 30th November 1995, the most recent date for which figures are available, there were 16 people in England and Wales serving terms of imprisonment for non-payment of fines imposed for television licence evasion.

The Viscount of Falkland

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. However, does he not agree that any reasonable person may take the view that to send someone to prison for non-payment of a fine resulting from the failure to pay a current television licence fee is a harsh penalty? Is not there another way of dealing with such offenders? Surely it is not beyond the means of man's technical ingenuity these days to find another way to deal with such cases; perhaps depriving viewers of their sets rather than sending them to prison.

Lord Inglewood

My Lords, I should emphasise that imprisonment for non-payment of a fine imposed for the non-payment of a television licence fee is very much a last resort. It takes place only after wilful refusal or culpable neglect on the part of the person concerned. The inability to disconnect television sets plays a large part in the thinking behind this matter. Were technology to be introduced to enable disconnection, that would be a major factor in our thinking. The Broadcasting Bill considers the advent of digital television and that technology may have a bearing on the point.

Lord Allen of Abbeydale

My Lords, how many of the 16 are women? And are figures available for Scotland?

Lord Inglewood

My Lords, I do not have the figures as at 30th November. However, in 1994 a total of 730 people were imprisoned under this heading, of whom 487 were male and 243 female. Figures are available for Scotland, but I am afraid I do not have them at the moment.

Lord Hylton

My Lords, is it not the case that there are other and larger classes of non-payers finding themselves in prison? For example, there are non-payers of poll tax, council tax and ordinary fines in prison. What steps are the Government taking to ensure the maximum possible use of non-custodial sentences for such offenders?

Lord Inglewood

My Lords, the noble Lord's question goes beyond that on the Order Paper. However, as a matter of policy prison is a last resort.

Lord Geddes

My Lords, I acknowledge that this is not an entirely original question, but can my noble friend give thought again to the sellers of television sets being obliged to sell licences with those television sets, thereby greatly reducing the number of people failing to pay licence fees?

Lord Inglewood

My Lords, that matter bears consideration. But if, for example, a television set has a life of 20 years and if, as is the case for next year, the cost of a colour TV licence is £89.50, it follows that the price of a television set, in order to recover a licence fee in respect of its economic life, would be hugely prohibitive.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, is not there another reason why the question of the Minister's noble friend is irrelevant? I refer to the fact that most people who buy television sets already own one and already possess a licence which is transferable. More seriously, the Minister gave an Answer in respect of England and Wales. Is it the case, as I believe it is, that in Scotland there are no cases of imprisonment for non-payment of fines of this kind? Though the Minister's answers have been extremely reassuring, would it not be desirable to follow the Scottish practice?

Lord Inglewood

My Lords, I understand that the procedures in this regard are different in Scotland and that distress is levied in a manner which is different from England and Wales. That is a step which automatically precedes the possibility of imprisonment. It follows therefore that more distress orders—or their Scottish equivalent—are served in Scotland, which can in turn have extremely serious consequences, particularly for those living with the person whose goods may be distrained and who may be dependent on the goods for their ordinary day-to-day lives. I understand that after that people may be imprisoned for non-payment, and it does happen.

Lady Saltoun of Abernethy

My Lords, surely if one has a licence, one can be obliged to take it along when purchasing a new set. If one does not have a licence, then one may be compelled to buy one when purchasing the television set.

Lord Inglewood

My Lords, under the current arrangements the person from whom one buys a new set is different from the person from whom one acquires the licence. In any event, it would have ramifications for the second-hand market.

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