HL Deb 15 February 1996 vol 569 cc791-803

7.45 p.m.

The Viscount of Falkland rose to ask Her Majesty's Government what new action they are considering to deal with criminal offences committed by those under the influence of alcohol.

The noble Viscount said: My Lords, we are a small and select group this evening discussing an important problem. It is none the worse for being a small group and I do not expect this to be a debate in which there are political differences.

I was asked by several noble Lords in the corridors of this House, in the friendly and congenial way in which things happen here, what was behind my Question. I am sure they wished that they had not asked because I was able to give them a synopsis of my speech. However, it is interesting that I should be asked by two or three Peers about this. They were interested, certainly, in what I started to tell them. It indicates that there is a contact with the way the general public think. At best there is an underestimation of the problems of crime and its links with alcohol.

I am vice-chairman of the all-party group on alcohol misuse, whose function it is to keep parliamentarians aware of developments in matters concerned with alcohol. We placed strong emphasis on health. We have now moved to the aspects of alcohol consumption which affect crime and to that end we conducted an inquiry. We took written and oral evidence from a number of important bodies such as the police, voluntary agencies, prison authorities and so forth, to discover as much as we could about their views of the problem.

Statistics indicate that we in this country are generally modest consumers of alcohol per capita every year. I do not suppose we are any different in terms of the small percentage who become addicts or alcoholics; that seems to be a fairly general and sad fact. In most societies there is a small percentage of people who will become addicted to one substance or another, unhappily nowadays crossing over from alcohol to drugs and back again. Those statistics may not be of much cheer to the brewers and distillers. I find it comforting that we, among the European nations, are modest consumers of alcohol.

I am sure that the noble Baroness, when she replies, will have some interesting and constructive thoughts in relation to the problems—mainly connected with younger males and their propensity in certain circumstances to indulge in activities which can be criminal as a result of an immoderate consumption of alcohol. One only has to read the newspapers every day or to follow the media to find cases of crime or sad events which may or may not be criminal, connected with alcohol abuse. Those are clearly most publicised, and have been publicised in recent years, in connection with sporting events. My noble friend Lord Addington will deal with that point. We have heard of British tourists misbehaving on international flights and some noble Lords may have seen a recent television programme about violence and alcohol on our railways, particularly our underground system in London.

There are also deaths and injuries from drinking and driving, although there has been a quite remarkable cultural change over the past 15 years. There has been an enormous change from when I was a young man. Generally speaking, I do not think that young males drink and drive. In fact, if one had to point the finger anywhere, it would be at middle-aged drivers, who drink and drive more than young people because they have not changed with the culture. The Minister may have something to say to us about that. Because I feel that there has been such a change and because I believe that when people have behaved well they need a pat on the back rather than being further chastised, I am not necessarily a supporter of more random testing. But persistent offenders—people who persist in driving while under the influence of drink—should be dealt with seriously, and sometimes severely.

The incidents we hear of are probably only part of the problem, either because other incidents have not been detected or because the link has not been made between alcohol and the crime. The overriding view given to the all-party group from doctors, the nursing profession, the Probation Service and the Prison Service was that not only is there a link between alcohol and crime but that not enough has yet been done to address the link. Therefore, a serious attempt must be made to reduce the large number of crimes which are undoubtedly related to alcohol.

The Police Superintendents Association estimates that more than 50 per cent. of all crimes have some alcohol component. The British Medical Association told the inquiry that two in three homicides, three in four stabbings and half of all fights in domestic situations are associated with alcohol. A survey by the West Midlands police showed that alcohol was a factor in 82 per cent. of disorder cases and 43 per cent. of assaults in that area of the British Isles, with most of the offences happening—this will not surprise your Lordships—around weekends and around closing time near licensed premises.

Given the wide range of offences shown to be linked to alcohol there are a number of measures which the Government could take. What is needed as an initial step is a co-ordinated approach to government policy on this issue. Perhaps the Minister can say whether the Government will encourage local authorities to work more with their local partners such as the police, the Probation Service, magistrates and alcohol services, particularly voluntary services, to draw up specific strategies to deal with the problem of alcohol related crime.

I shall return to the subject of licensed premises. Given the number of cases of assault and disorder which take place outside licensed premises around closing time, considerable efforts have already been made by parts of the drinks industry to improve the situation. It is recognised by the drinks trade that a higher level of training is needed by staff working in licensed premises not only to prevent disturbances and to foresee them but indeed to learn how alcohol works. If one has to teach young people about drink and about its health aspect it is quite important to tell them, as indeed I have tried to tell my own children—happily, I have had no problems so far—that not only does alcohol cause health problems if one drinks too much of it but that one has to understand what in each particular case it does. Some people become very aggressive. Some people like me become giggly and stupid—more giggly and stupid than usual. It is necessary for young people to be taught about the dangers of this and other substances.

We heard interesting evidence from the Prison Service. Bearing in mind the number of people who are in prison with alcohol problems, prisons are often without even the most basic information about alcohol and offer little access to counselling and rehabilitation services. In an overcrowded prison system it should be possible to remove a number of people who are not professional criminals. Many of them are, unhappily, inadequate people with problems who find themselves in places of that kind where their problems can only be aggravated.

The impact of alcohol abuse on family life is devastating. The problem affects not only inner city poor areas but also middle class affluent areas. The result of one person—a parent or a partner—having an alcohol problem and persistently getting into trouble with the police who may be called in to deal with domestic violence can be that person going to prison with little or no access to the kind of help which is needed to deal with the alcohol problem.

The report of the all-party group was a step in the right direction and it has gone to the Minister's department. Alcohol studies are not always the most charismatic or attractive of studies to read but this report is full of interesting information. I hope that the Government will consider seriously the recommendations in the report because there is no doubt that they are a much needed basis on which to work for a national and co-ordinated strategy to deal with the problem.

7.58 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

s: My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for introducing an interesting and important subject. What new action are the Government considering to deal with criminal offences committed by those under the influence of alcohol? I shall confine my short speech to that point.

This subject is clearly, from the point of view of new action by the Government in the criminal context, closely related to drugs and cannot be considered in isolation from them, the question being whether self-induced abuse of alcohol or of drugs or even clandestine administration—spiked food or drink—affects the mental capacity in such a way as to exculpate from the commission of a crime. The new action taken would be perhaps to introduce better laws because, as the former chairman of the Law Commission, Mr. Justice Brooke, said in his reflections at page 914 of the Criminal Law Review (1995), Concealed from view in this context of offences against the person are a whole host of complicated common law principles worked out by the judges over the years in an effort to make this ragbag of offences work. The more the judges try to make these provisions operate as rationally and fairly as is practicable, the more obvious it has become that the basic framework of the law is unprincipled and very seriously out of kilter with modern international standards". That is the sort of basis on which I am approaching this very serious question.

The problem arises in its most acute form—in the interests of time I shall confine my observations to it—in relation to the charge of murder, which, at the moment, is under general review and which incurs the mandatory life sentence. That should be under review, but it is not. It could extend to rape if the proposals as to a mandatory life sentence on second conviction are to be implemented. The automatic mandatory life sentence for a second offence of rape committed under a substantial consumption of self-induced drinking, or even perhaps administered, without any judicial discretion to take that into account, is quite a serious matter. I only mention that as an illustration of the magnitude of this question.

There is the case of Kingston. He was a young man whose food and drink was surreptitiously laced with a powerful intoxicant. Under its influence he caused someone's death with the intention of causing him serious harm. He could not have formed that intention if his drink had not been spiked. He was guilty of murder.

I said that I would make a short speech and I meant it. This is a matter which warrants not only the attention of the Law Commission, which it is about to receive, but also in due course the attention of government in context with a simple proposition; namely, how does the consumption of alcohol to a certain degree which affects intent or the administration of drugs, exculpate from crime?

8.5 p.m.

Lord Addington

My Lords, when I started thinking about the question before us—that is to say, how alcohol and crime are related in our society—I found that it is very difficult to think of any general public disorder crimes which are not to some extent affected by alcohol. The simple reason is that alcohol is the drug of choice for virtually the whole of the Western world and is something which breaks down one's inhibitions. That is why we take it as a social activity. Alcohol breaks down inhibitions against doing harm and against certain other types of behaviour.

Alcohol also breaks down inhibitions at different rates. As my noble friend has just said, different people react to alcohol in different ways. It affects people at different ages in different ways. It depends on one's diet. It is a very variable substance. Also, different types of alcohol react differently in different people at different times. With that chemical variant working through the system, the only thing that we can say for sure about it is that it creates situations where one is not so much in control and there are not so many inbuilt natural or social inhibitions influencing one's actions. There is, then, the situation of people being more prepared to follow through instincts or feelings and thus one has the breakdown of normal rules and regulations, law and order.

The principal offender is, and has always been, the young male. Although I feel something of a veteran when I play rugby, in this Chamber I believe that I am one of those closest to that group. In this context, people who are genetically the most boisterous and most affected by machismo and who take on alcohol may turn towards acts of violence and disorder.

I believe that that is what, primarily, we are talking about here. We are not talking so much about premeditation. There may be cases, for example, where people are drinking to break down inhibitions and to give themselves Dutch courage; for instance, in organised football violence. The Government have made successful attempts towards curtailing that problem over the past few years. Often the reaction is off the cuff. That is when a person finds himself in a situation of stress where the inhibitions are broken down and there is over-reaction. The young male who is over-reacting goes from punching someone on the nose to trying to use a knife or he is socially geared to carry a knife or use a piece of broken glass. Many crimes take place in that way, leading to a level of violence involving the taking of life.

In order to try to break down that situation, the Government are placed in a very odd situation. One of the great problems which the British have is that they are renowned as speed drinkers. We drink very fast: we are renowned for that abroad. Indeed, our licensing hours restricting the amount of time that one can spend in bars have often been pointed to as a contributor to that situation. Someone goes home from work, gets changed and goes out. Possibly that person does not go out until nine o'clock. The bar he is socialising in will be shut by eleven. Often it is a case of, "We must drink something to relax ourselves". We are creating a situation which encourages the over-consumption of alcohol over a short period of time, possibly on an empty stomach.

It is very odd to think that one might be actually easing the situation and reducing the tension by extending the amount of drinking time. I suggest in some situations the breaking down of the licensing hours after lunch. If people are not forced into a bar to consume at a certain rate to create a certain effect and then forced out, one may, as my noble friend said, by changing the time of leaving bars, remove the conflict situation. Staggering the hours would allow people to choose their own time for drinking. That is something which should definitely take place.

As regards sporting occasions, if people involved in those activities are sent out at certain hours when they have reached a certain degree of intoxication, one is again creating a cauldron. The behaviour also depends on culture. For instance, soccer crowds are made up predominantly of young men and there has been most trouble with them in the past. If one cuts down the amount of alcohol drunk on trains travelling to and from games and at the grounds, the amount of violence is reduced. Scotland showed us the way forward and that it is possible to tackle and to deal with such situations. We now have to think hard about allowing the consumption of alcohol on journeys to and from soccer matches and other sporting events. Boxing has had a very bad press, with possibly the same tribal instincts being stirred up, leading to similar results when alcohol is involved.

We are talking about the drug of choice for the whole of our society. There are very few situations in which, traditionally, people do not drink alcohol. It is still unusual to find people who do not drink alcohol. The most intelligent way forward would be to teach people about consumption patterns and about what happens to them when they consume alcohol. We have already made a huge cultural step forward in terms of drinking and driving. My noble friend referred to that. Drinking and driving is now regarded as idiotic by many members of our society. We must try to get people to realise that they must act responsibly for the good of themselves and those around them. If consuming too much alcohol is no longer socially acceptable, people will probably try to restrict their consumption.

Ultimately, unless we try to ban the sale of alcohol altogether, which will not work—indeed, the only part of the Western world which tried to do that created vastly more crime and far more alcoholism than was the case previously—we must try first to change the way in which we regard alcohol and, secondly, we must change the way in which we encourage its consumption. That is the only way forward with this problem.

8.11 p.m.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, we must be grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, for tabling this Unstarred Question and for bringing to the attention of the House the excellent all-party group report, of which he was the vice-chairman, which I have read with a great deal of interest. The speeches that we have heard have a common basis although they have all been very different in emphasis. That common basis is the well-established link between alcohol and crime. That was shown clearly in the all-party report and has been confirmed by all of the agencies which are concerned with this serious problem.

The noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, chose quite properly not to follow the social speech of the noble Viscount, but spoke about the legal implications of alcohol and crime. He referred to the work of the Law Commission. I read with great interest the Law Commission's paper No. 127 on the subject. I have also had the benefit of reading the Law Society's response to that consultation paper. The conclusion that I draw from it is that although it is difficult to decide in relation to which crimes the influence of alcohol should be recognised, the present law is not too far from the ideal.

As I understand it, the distinction between whether or not alcohol is a factor to be considered in judging a crime is whether the crime is one in which the state of mind of the accused—that is, the intention—is an essential part of the crime. Murder and causing grievous bodily harm with intent are such crimes, but manslaughter and other crimes which do not involve intent are not such crimes. This is difficult to define. I know that the definitions derive from a House of Lords judgment in 1977 in the Majewski case. The subtlety which I still find a little difficult to understand is the concept of "Caldwell recklessness". I am still not quite clear what that means.

Basically what the Law Commission was saying—the Law Society and others who have responded probably agree—was that although there will always be difficulties around the edges, if we stick to the concept of "intent" to cause a particular result, it is possible to rely on the intoxicated state as being evidence that the defendant had no such intention. However, a drunken intention is still an intention at law. Therefore, the law will never be entirely clear on this point. If, on the other hand, the allegation is only that the person realised that there was a risk that a particular result might occur, intoxication would not be a defence. The conclusion that one draws from that is that if there are changes to be made in the law—I believe that the Law Commission has a draft Bill—they will be relatively minor and therefore we should not expect too much change.

I move now without too much difficulty to the social issues raised by the noble Viscount. The conclusion that I draw from the all-party report is that a wide variety of people have to be responsible if any progress is to be made. I do not think that it is a matter of saying, "The Government must do this"—although perhaps one may wish that the ministerial group which existed between 1987 and 1991 could be revived—although the involvement of local authorities, magistrates, the police, the prison service and sporting authorities will be necessary. We shall have to chip away at the problem because we are never going to solve it.

Perhaps I may refer first to local authorities and, to a lesser extent, health authorities. Coventry and some other places have introduced a by-law prohibiting street drinking in certain areas. There is a lot to be said for that. I am sure that all of us find it personally offensive to see people (not only in shopping areas but elsehere, and particularly on public transport) going around even early in the morning with beer cans in their hands from which they take a glug from time to time. It appears from the Coventry experience—evidence was given to the all-party group—that there are things which can be done which have some effect in reducing certain kinds of alcohol-induced crime, such as crimes of disorder. Clearly, such by-laws will not have any effect on the incidence of murder or domestic crime.

Local authorities also have other responsibilities. In conjunction with health authorities they could set up day centres—if there is the funding. Clearly, that would be of value.

It is also important to be much fiercer than we are about requesting proof of age in pubs. I know that my sons all started drinking in pubs long before they were legally allowed to do so. I am sure that that is the experience of most Members of your Lordships' House and of most people generally. If there were an effective system of requiring proof of age, as there is in most of the United States, perhaps we could get rid of another aspect of alcohol-related crime. However, in order to do that local authorities have to have responsibility for crime prevention in conjunction with police authorities. We regretted very much the fact that the Police and Magistrates' Courts Act of a couple of years ago did not put crime prevention at the core of collaboration between local authorities and police authorities.

I turn briefly to the sporting events to which the noble Lord, Lord Addington, referred. I agree with what he said, but when he spoke about football violence I thought that he was being a little selective in class terms. Surely alcohol violence at Varsity matches and the Boat Race, if not at Test matches, shows that alcohol-related crime applies just as much to the upper classes as to the lower classes. I can see the noble Viscount, Lord Long, recalling his long past and no doubt raddled youth. I recall Evelyn Waugh in Decline and Fall describing the sound of the upper classes baying after broken glass. Perhaps that is what he is remembering.

Lord Addington

My Lords, I merely used football as the best example, and an example of tribal, confrontational violence. Shall we say that offences of disorder have long been a part of Rugby Union?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I see tribalism, on the whole, more with the upper classes and the aristocracy than I do among the working class.

However, I turn rapidly to magistrates and the powers that they could have to impose non-custodial sentences which involve the use, for example, of day centres, to which I have already referred, and alcohol treatment centres. There is the important aspect of magistrates' responsibility for licensing. Licences to sell alcohol are cheap. Perhaps they could be made more expensive. Some of the controls, particularly on selling alcohol to young people, could perhaps be fiercer than they are.

We have not referred much to forms of drugs other than alcohol, and the two must be considered together. My honourable friend George Howarth, who is a member of the Front Bench Home Affairs team in the other place, has been doing a great deal of work recently on the control of door staff in clubs. That is important. The training and control of door staff in clubs in understanding—

Lord Graham of Edmonton

Bouncers!

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

Bouncers, my Lords, as my noble friend reminds me. The training of such people in understanding alcohol and drug abuse is enormously important. It could make a significant contribution to reducing alcohol-induced crime.

The responsibilities of the police are self-evident. I do not need to expand on that point. There is a great deal still to be learnt by the police about how to deal with drunks at police stations. There are police stations, certainly in my part of London, where the practice is severely below that which is desired.

Finally, I want to refer to what can be done in prisons to deal with alcohol rehabilitation. I have been reading with interest about the work of the Rehabilitation for Addicted Prisoners Trust in Her Majesty's Prisons at Downview and Coldingley, and, as of this year, also in Pentonville. It has been providing counselling, in the first instance by outside counsellors in those prisons, and consistent programmes to wean prisoners off alcohol abuse. It has now been able to build up a group of peer counsellors—nothing to do with the House of Lords, but fellow prisoners—who work effectively, as I understand it. I pay tribute to that work and I hope that it will be extended. Perhaps the Minister can say something about what more could be done.

There will never be a solution to the problem. It is riot a problem, it is a whole series of problems. As the noble Viscount said in his introduction, alcohol is the drug of choice for the western world, but if we involve all the agencies about which I have been talking we can chip away at the problem and perhaps make progress.

8.23 p.m.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Blatch)

My Lords, I, too, join with other noble Lords in congratulating the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, on raising an issue which is rightly foremost in the current debate about the improper use of alcohol. But before responding to the many and learned points which have been made I must say that at the Home Office we are often asked what are the causes of crime and what is being done to tackle crime and disorder. Alcohol misuse is often mentioned as a cause of criminality. Noble Lords will know that, quite simply, there is no single cause of crime. The reasons why people become offenders are complex and wide ranging. A variety of factors may encourage them towards or away from criminality. For some, alcohol will undoubtedly be an influential factor but it, too, may be part of a more complex picture.

The consumption of alcohol, in sensible quantities and in appropriate circumstances, provides a great many people with a great deal of enjoyment. I suspect that at this moment many of our colleagues are indulging innocently in that pastime. Clearly it is an important part in our social and cultural life. Equally, drinking the wrong amount or at the wrong time can lead to immeasurable harm—harm in health terms, as the noble Viscount said. And on those occasions where it reduces concentration and inhibition it can, and regrettably does, lead to accidents and anti-social behaviour.

The Government do not wish to discourage the sensible consumption of alcohol but are committed to reducing alcohol-related harm. Government policy is that schools, colleges and the Youth Service should encourage young people in developing responsible attitudes towards alcohol consumption. Young people need to learn to make sensible choices about whether, when and how much to drink and how to resist persuasion and pressure. That often happens in the context of more general health education programmes which emphasise the benefits of healthy living.

It is essential that we continue to get that message across, as heavy drinking often precedes violent and sexual crimes and disorderly behaviour, and many persistent offenders have a lifestyle which includes heavy drinking. Crime prevention efforts are therefore targeted on disorder and violence associated with licensed premises, and measures to encourage sensible drinking are seen as contributing to crime prevention generally. We know, for example, that almost half the incidents of disorderly behaviour dealt with by the police occur shortly after the end of permitted hours for licensed premises and are more likely to occur on Friday or Saturday nights and to involve young men. That said, it is important to remember that most drinking is not associated with crime.

Time prevents me from answering in detail the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Addington, about exit times from licensed premises, but it is a point well taken.

A great deal of progress has been made: alcohol related road traffic accidents are decreasing, attitudes have changed, as has been recognised by the debate, and drink drivers are increasingly being seen and treated as a criminal menace.

My noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway mentioned the courts. There is no question about the important role that the courts have to play in dealing with alcohol-related crimes. In that regard, the Government's responsibility is to ensure that the courts have sufficient powers to deal adequately with the worst offences. Severe maximum penalties are available, particularly for offences of violence, and we have not hesitated to increase them where necessary; for example, the Criminal Justice Act 1993 doubled to 10 years' imprisonment the maximum penalty for causing death by careless driving while under the influence of drink.

Parliament has provided a sentencing framework, as my noble friend knows, which enables the courts to impose appropriate penalties on serious or persistent offenders. We believe that it is now up to the courts to make full use of those powers. I look forward with interest to the Law Commission's proposals on this matter.

Alcohol-related crime is being tackled on a broad front by a great many agencies. Examples of recent action to reduce alcohol related disorder include the establishment of over 880 Pub Watch schemes right across England and Wales. As your Lordships will know, Pub Watch involves licensees working in co-operation with one another and the police and is an excellent example of the partnership approach to crime prevention. It can help licensees to deter potential trouble-makers and prevent the escalation of trouble.

Noble Lords will be familiar with the Safer Cities Programme which tackles crime in the inner cities through proactive, multi-agency projects in areas with high crime rates. Since it was launched in 1988 it has funded more than 40 schemes aimed at tackling alcohol-related crimes.

Many local authorities have already undertaken or participated in crime prevention or community safety partnerships which focus on alcohol-related problems. Those local partnerships aim to identify the scale of alcohol-related crime and deal with it, principally by persuading licensees and, where necessary, companies or brewers to improve the standard of supervision and management of their premises.

The work of the Probation Service in this area is well known. This service has a long history of helping offenders who misuse alcohol and has traditionally looked to the voluntary sector for help.

Many prisoners have a history of alcohol misuse and need help in tackling this problem. Programmes are run in most prisons and prisoners are encouraged to seek treatment. The programmes include education about the effects of alcohol and training in self-control techniques. Like the Probation Service, the Prison Service works closely with voluntary and other agencies in preparing prisoners for release and supporting them afterwards.

The noble Viscount referred to drinking and driving. As he knows, it is a serious and avoidable problem. The Government's message is aimed at the general public, not only at young people, and it is simply, "Don't drink and drive". From my involvement in observing young people I can say that they are more responsible. It is common nowadays for young people going out in a group to ask, "Who has elected not to drink?", in order that they can be driven home safely. That is extremely encouraging. Our policy is to try to change people's attitudes and we believe that we are making progress in deterring people from drinking and driving. In 1979 the proportion claiming never to drive and drink or to drink over the limit was 50 per cent. By 1990, it had risen to 79 per cent. We believe that progress is being made.

Much was said about encouraging local authorities to do more in a co-ordinated way. That activity is very lively at local authority level. Much is going on and the partnership approach to the matter is working and is the key. Perhaps I may refer to a partnership approach which goes back to Pub Watch. It is a multi-agency project involving brewers, licensees, the local authorities, the police and magistrates. The main objective of a scheme in Derby is to prevent or reduce drink-related disorder. A door-staff registration scheme was established by which door-staff have to attend a training course—a point made by the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh—and be approved by the Pub Watch group. Another campaign has involved the more vigorous application of exclusion orders under the Licensed Premises (Exclusion of Certain Persons) Act 1980.

Much was made of what more we can do at national level. A Cabinet sub-committee on health strategy is co-ordinating policies to deal with alcohol misuse and to ensure that measures to tackle alcohol-related crime and disorder are co-ordinated right across government departments.

The Prison Service was mentioned specifically. It recognises that the age and profile of clients presenting to community drug and alcohol services are no longer widely different and both groups have similar problems. Again, that point was made by the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh. Such people have problems with dependence and socio-economic factors and prisoners present with poly-substance misuse problems. For those reasons the Prison Service adopted a combined approach for the care, support and treatment of prisoners with alcohol and other substance misuse. In addition, the Prison Service health advisory committee, under the chairmanship of the former chief medical officer, Sir Donald Acheson, is now preparing a report on alcohol in prisons. Its recommendations will inform the development of future alcohol specific policy.

In schools in England and Wales education about alcohol misuse is a statutory requirement as part of the programmes of study covering aspects of drug education in the National Curriculum Science Order. Pupils aged seven to 11 are taught that alcohol can have harmful effects and effects on personal lifestyles. From age 11 to 16 pupils broaden and deepen their study of alcohol misuse by learning about the effects of alcohol on health and body functions, a point specifically made by the noble Viscount.

In May last year the Department for Education and Employment issued to all schools detailed guidance on teaching about drugs and dealing with drug-related incidents on school premises. The advice applies to all substances whose use or misuse may have harmful effects on the body, including alcohol. In addition, the advice contains a specific chapter on alcohol.

Much was made of the issue of by-laws and I agree with what was said by the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh. Local authorities can make by-laws under which it is an offence to drink intoxicating liquor in designated public places. I am happy to say that much is being made of that facility by local authorities. As regards proof of age, there is some read across to identity cards. No doubt we shall have much discussion about that aspect of identity cards when we debate the matter at a later date.

The noble Lord, Lord Addington, made an important point about public transport. We fully acknowledge the importance of making public transport safe for everyone. We have been involved in a number of successful initiatives to improve transport security. I would be happy to write to the noble Lord to inform him of some of those initiatives.

We acknowledge the importance of door supervisors, a point made by the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh. There have been problems with violence by door supervisors in certain parts of the country. The police have reported that where this is the case, local registration schemes based on the attachment of conditions such as registration to public entertainment licences have proved effective in reducing incidents. The extent of the problem varies from district to district, with some areas experiencing little or no difficulties. However, it can be and should be a matter for local authorities to address.

We have had a wide-ranging debate, albeit a short one, which has been much informed by the recent report of the All-Party Group on Alcohol Misuse. Yes, crime is a most pressing social problem in this country today, but I do not accept that one of the most obvious social problems—that is, alcohol misuse—has been ignored. The Government are concerned to reduce crime and disorder associated with alcohol misuse and they welcome the many initiatives designed to encourage sensible drinking. In examining alcohol misuse, it is important that excuses are not sought for those who engage in crime. It is individuals who choose to commit crimes. Help is available to those requiring treatment for alcohol dependence. Other approaches have to be pursued too. The recent revised sensible drinking levels offer soundly based and credible advice on which people can base their own choices.

It has been said many times before that teamwork is important. In order to he really effective, action has to be taken at the local level where the problems of alcohol misuse actually occur. We will continue to encourage local agencies, statutory, voluntary and commercial, to work together in all parts of the country to promote the sensible drinking message, to discourage alcohol misuse and to provide help for people who have alcohol-related problems. Whatever noble Lords' nightcap, I wish them a safe journey home.