Mobile Telephones: Use in Public Places (Hansard, 7 February 1996)

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, while that is an intriguing suggestion, the Government doubt how efficaciously manners can be regulated.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble and learned friend for his reply. Is he aware that several such telephones used in a restricted place can become a serious public nuisance? They may be necessary in the modern, competitive business world but should not special areas be designated for their use —for example, on trains, where passengers suffer unduly and especially when voices arc raised to a shout when passing through tunnels?

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I have no doubt that the suggestion made by my noble friend meets with considerable approval from many noble Lords. Many of us have suffered the intolerable situation on trains and elsewhere of having to listen to extremely boring ends of conversations. It would be polite for people not to engage in such phonecalls at maximum pitch and it might be desirable if trains, restaurants and other places introduced some arrangements of their own. I am certainly aware of one airline which, within its lounge, provides a particular area in which people can use their mobile phones. I have no doubt that if that suggestion were followed by others, it would meet with widespread approval.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, does the Minister consider motorways to be a public place in the context of this Question? On two separate occasions I have had the unfortunate experience of following down the motorway someone who was driving at 60 miles an hour in the centre lane while making telephone calls, causing several hundred cars to pull out into the fast lane to try to overtake, rather than undercut in the empty inner lane. Can the Minister find some way of approaching that problem?

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, there is not a specific offence of using a mobile phone while driving a motor vehicle. But there are circumstances in which use of a mobile phone might result in prosecution.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, does my noble and learned friend agree that mobile telephones are not for purposes of communication but to enhance the prestige of those who carry them and make it apparent that they are upwardly mobile? Would Her Majesty's Government care to consider offering such people some kind of decoration which they could wear to 237 indicate that they are qualified yuppies, without their having to bore the rest of the public with their conversations, alleged or imaginary?

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, my noble friend strikes a clear chord with many of your Lordships. He makes an intriguing suggestion but, again, I doubt whether it is a matter that the Government could hope to regulate. It might disturb him to know that there are around 5.5 million people in the country now with mobile telephones. It would be a horrible situation if they were all to use them in public places at the same time.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, regarding the use of mobile phones on trains and the nuisance caused to passengers, does the noble and learned Lord agree that it would be possible, as has already been suggested, to have a separate carriage for mobile phone users? Perhaps, at the same time, those responsible could be persuaded to reintroduce smoking compartments where they could very well be?

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
I hope that the soon to be successful operators of the privatised railways will take on board the noble Lord's suggestion, coming, as it does, from such an eminent source.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, is the noble and learned Lord aware how glad I am to hear that the Government will not become involved in teaching manners to people with mobile phones or with anything else? My heart sank when I first heard the Question. What is there about mobile phones that so upsets people? Perfectly normal people seem to go absolutely crackers at the mere mention of a mobile phone. I hasten to add that I do not have one. If there is a problem, could not separate places be created, approximately one yard square, in which people could use their mobile phones? Such places used to he called phone-boxes.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I feel that it would be desirable if in trains, restaurants and other public places special areas were to be set aside. But I am not sure that it is a matter that the Government should seek to regulate. I am surprised that the noble Lord is unique in not finding overhearing phonecalls on mobiles extremely irritating, not only because they are usually conducted at an extraordinary volume but also because the conversations engaged in are extremely tedious.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord allow me to mention that my problem is that I find most of the conversations that I overhear extremely irritating and tedious? So far as I am concerned there is nothing unique about the mobile phone.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I do not agree. I can think of remarks overheard on the top deck of a bus which could be brilliant opening lines for a novel. I have not heard anything on a mobile phone that would have prompted my imagination.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, is my noble and learned friend aware that the practice is not confined to 238 yuppies? One complaint that has come to me was about a prominent member of the Shadow Cabinet who telephoned on a train almost continuously between London and Edinburgh. The only light relief for the passengers, who were forced to overhear, came from his loud suggestions as to what the Labour Party should do about Arthur Scargill.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I do not feel that the noble Lord should boast of his good fortune in overhearing an interesting conversation. It certainly does not square with the general experience of the rest of us.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, is the Minister aware that that particular problem is likely to be of importance only until the next General Election? After that, the members of the Shadow Cabinet will be in ministerial cars.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I am intrigued to hear that we have at long last a solemn manifesto commitment that there will be no use of the railways by those who aspire to be members of the next government.

§ Lord Winston
My Lords, is the Minister aware that for some people a mobile phone is an essential method of communication and is highly desirable? Any time that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, wants to borrow a mobile telephone, he has only to ask.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, as regards the matter of manners, which was raised by the original Question, I believe that there are issues. The noble Lord is absolutely right. The mobile phone is of great assistance to all manner of people. I know that a number of organisations have particularly encouraged women travelling alone on motorways to carry a mobile phone. One can think of many other instances in which the mobile phone is indeed of significant advantage.