HL Deb 06 February 1996 vol 569 cc114-6

2.49 p.m.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, following the judgment in the sheriff court on 5th December 1995, they will take steps to reimburse Mr. Humphrey Errington for the costs which he incurred in defending himself and his product against the proceedings brought against him by Clydesdale District Council.

The Lord Advocate (Lord Mackay of Drumadoon)

My Lords, the question of Mr. Errington's expenses in the proceedings is a matter which is currently before the sheriff at Lanark for decision. Until the sheriff has announced his decision, it would be inappropriate for me to comment other than to remind the House that Her Majesty's Government are not a party to the proceedings, which involve Mr. Errington on the one hand and Clydesdale District Council on the other.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble and learned friend for giving me prior warning that in the present circumstances he would not be able to answer the Question as I would have liked. However, will he have in mind that the unrelenting pursuit of Mr. Errington by the Clydesdale District Council was seriously flawed because of a failure either to look carefully at his production methods or to consider who, if anybody, had suffered as a result of eating his product? Will my noble and learned friend consider circulating the admirable judgment of Sheriff Allan to be read with care by all those who are tempted to use their office as an opportunity to bully?

Lord Mackay of Drumadoon

My Lords, I am aware that the anxieties raised by my noble friend have attracted a measure of publicity. In view of the fact that the case is currently still before the court there is a limit to what it is appropriate to say. It is my understanding that the sheriff hopes to deliver his decision by the end of this month. However, I can assure my noble friend that in the meantime the judgment is being studied carefully. I have little doubt that it will be studied carefully by the officials of the district council. Certainly the relevant government departments have in mind to review all the relevant guidance to make sure that when such issues are addressed in future they will not take as long to decide as in this case.

The Earl of Onslow

My Lords, I hope that it is in order to ask my noble friend whether he is aware of the appalling comments about the witnesses for the Clydesdale District Council, to the effect that Dr. Ahmed did not appreciate serious matters, Dr. McLaughlin was not reliable as an expert witness and the Scottish Agricultural College was not reliable in all the tests that it undertook. They have all been torn to pieces in the judgment. Does he agree that such comments should not be allowed in public affairs?

Lord Mackay of Drumadoon

My Lords, again, I must remind the House that there is a limit to what I can say. As my noble friend correctly observed, certain criticisms are made of individual witnesses. I am sure that the witnesses concerned will read the judgment and reflect carefully on the criticisms that are made of them.

Lord Richard

My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend Lord Macaulay, who is recuperating from a recent fall, perhaps I may say to the noble and learned Lord the Lord Advocate that we on this side of the House are delighted that Lanark Blue has been preserved. After all, it is one of the very few places north of the Border which can still be called blue.

Lord Mackay of Drumadoon

My Lords, I understand that it is not only blue but it is thriving, like other areas in Scotland.

Lord Mottistone

My Lords, can my noble and learned friend tell us what is the product which is the subject of this great discussion?

Lord Mackay of Drumadoon

Cheese, my Lords.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, can the noble Lord confirm that the Clydesdale District Council spent £250,000 in pursuing this case, very badly, against Mr. Errington? Can he say whether in the light of that large figure the matter will be considered by the district auditor?

Lord Mackay of Drumadoon

My Lords, I am uncertain as to precisely what sum has been incurred by the district council, but it is a very large sum indeed. In addition to proceedings before a sheriff, at an earlier stage in proceedings there was an appeal for judicial review in the Court of Session in which the district council was unsuccessful and in which it had to meet not only its own expenses but also those of Mr. Errington. If any expenditure has been incurred which ought not to have been incurred that is a matter which can properly be investigated by the usual procedures. Again, it would not be appropriate for me to comment further.

Lord Vinson

My Lords, would my noble and learned friend care to comment on the current position of the draft appeal procedures which were promoted in this House about a year ago and which, when enacted, will enable the regulatee to appeal against inappropriate or excessive regulation to a far greater extent than currently? Had those procedures been enacted when this horrendous case arose no doubt it would not have occurred. Can my noble and learned friend give some idea of when those appeal procedures are likely to be introduced?

Lord Mackay of Drumadoon

My Lords, this is an aspect of the whole issue of deregulation which the House knows has been considered actively by the Government. In relation to the particular statutory provisions with which this case is concerned, it is my understanding that until this particular case they have operated in the manner in which they were designed to operate; namely, to provide a speedy remedy for establishing one way or another whether the food in question is unfit for human consumption. Clearly, this case has lasted a great deal longer than anticipated. It has cost more money than is desirable. Therefore, the matter will be looked at fully by the Government once the proceedings have come to an end.