HL Deb 18 December 1996 vol 576 cc1502-4

2.53 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putney asked Her Majesty's Government:

When they will make the statement on the Canberra Report promised by the Lord Chesham on 2nd December (HL Deb., col. 463).

Lord Chesham

My Lords, we welcome both the report's acknowledgement that it is for the nuclear weapons states to negotiate nuclear arms control measures among themselves and its call for further reductions in the US and Russian arsenals. The report also acknowledges the unilateral reductions that we have already undertaken in our nuclear forces. We support the report's emphasis on the crucial importance of effective verification and its call for a fissile material cut-off treaty. But we disagree fundamentally with the report's assertion that nuclear deterrence has no role. I am writing to the noble Lord, setting that out more fully. A copy of that letter will be placed in the Library of the House.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I am extremely grateful for the comprehensive nature of the noble Lord's reply. But I regret the exception that he made, especially as at this time, I am sure he will agree, there is a very considerable movement against nuclear weapons. Does he agree that that is to be found not only in the Canberra Report but also in the meeting of top brass from all over the world, including a score of American generals and a similar number from Russia, making it clear that they regard the weapon as an enemy of mankind and to be got rid of as soon as possible? Will the Government have another look at this issue from that point of view, particularly as we were represented at the meeting of what I described as "top brass" by the noble and gallant Lord, Field Marshal Lord Carver?

Lord Chesham

My Lords, we agree very much with parts of the statement on nuclear weapons by the International Generals and Admirals, as I believe it is now generally called. However, the views of many of those signing the statement are well known to us. We have already said that we support some of the points made in the statement, but we judge that nuclear deterrence remains an important element in ensuring security and stability in Europe.

Lord Monkswell

My Lords, will the Government recognise that there is a slight flaw in their argument that only the nuclear weapons states should determine whether they get rid of nuclear weapons? Does the noble Lord agree that, if that logic were extended in this country, effectively the Government would be saying that it should be up to those people in this country who own handguns to determine whether they should get rid of handguns?

Lord Chesham

My Lords, I have absolutely no intention of going into the area of handguns at this moment. It is fairly ridiculous to suggest that one should. So far as concerns nuclear weapons states deciding this issue, that is exactly what has been recommended by both the Canberra Report and the International Generals and Admirals.

Lord Carver

My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether the Government will support the report when it is presented by the Australian Government to the United Nations disarmament conference in January? If not, why not?

Lord Chesham

My Lords, I have already explained that we cannot support the report totally because we do not believe that the role of deterrence has disappeared. Disarmament measures cannot be divorced from the broader global security context. Deterrence continues to make an essential contribution to European security.

Lord Clinton—Davis

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the vital element is to ensure that non-proliferation is implemented as soon as possible so far as concerns such weapons and that verification is an essential component of it?

Lord Chesham

My Lords, I certainly agree with the noble Lord.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the element which is lacking in this country and which is now becoming evident throughout the world is the element of urgency? I do not make any distinction between one side of the House and the other on this point. Will the noble Lord take further cognisance of the feeling that is spreading throughout the world that we must take the matter of getting rid of the nuclear weapon more urgently than has been the case hitherto?

Lord Chesham

My Lords, the record of this Government stands very well so far as the urgency that has been achieved and what we have achieved in relation to other countries. I do not believe that we can be criticised for it.

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