§ 3.2 p.m.
§ Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether imports of foreign oak seedlings pose a threat to the long-term health of indigenous British oak trees.
Lord LucasMy Lords, the oak seedlings which are imported into Britain do not pose a significant threat to the health of our oak trees. This is because the pests and diseases which affect European oaks are very similar to those which affect our oaks. Nevertheless, certification procedures are in place to ensure that imported seedlings are healthy.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reassuring reply. However, can he confirm that the Millennium Commission plans to finance the establishment of about 250 new woodlands in Britain to include oaks from Eastern Europe, apparently because they are cheaper than our native acorns? Might that in time dilute the genetic strength of our oaks and cause other damage to local ecologies in the areas concerned, as some botanists fear?
Lord LucasMy Lords, my noble friend should not be too concerned. We have always imported oak seedlings and acorns. In only about one year in seven do we have enough acorns from our own trees to satisfy our demand because we are in a marginal area for the oak and it does not set seed well every year. One can go back in history to look at extensive importations in the past which have not caused us any difficulty. I do not believe that it will do so in the future. There is no evidence that wildlife will suffer 1084 in any way from importations. Indeed, genetic diversity in our own stock is to be valued. If more genetic diversity is to be found outside the United Kingdom, we would do better to have it here.
§ Lord CarterMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the alien seedlings come from oaks in central and eastern Europe which have been isolated from British oaks for 4 million years? Experts and conservation interests argue that beetles, flies, caterpillars, birds and mammals could be at risk from the changed ecology of their environment. Is this not a classic case of penny wise, ecology foolish?
Lord LucasMy Lords, no, I do not agree with that. It is clear that the species are very close. If there is a difference it is very small compared with the difference between our two native oak species, the common and the durmast oak, whose differences are further apart than those between the common oak in England and, say, in Hungary. The danger may be that the common oak in Hungary is adapted to a continental rather than a maritime climate and, therefore, may not grow well. It may be a bad tree from a forestry point of view but it is likely to be good for wildlife.
§ Lord CarterMy Lords, if the growth is delayed, will that not affect all the birds which rely on the oak for their food?
Lord LucasMy Lords, there is a great variation between the dates that English oaks come into flower and leaf. There is a two-week spread within our own species. The common and the durmast oak flower at different times, and the times vary in differing years. I do not believe that there is any danger that the variation arising from European oaks will be greater than our natural variation.
§ Lord Pearson of RannochMy Lords, is it not true that the indigenous British oak is to be proscribed by the forestry reproductive materials directive, 66/404, which proscribes many varieties of seeds and is about to wipe out some 95 per cent. of our natural varieties of tomato and many of the tastier forms of broad bean?
Lord LucasMy Lords, the connection between oaks and tomatoes escapes me briefly. No, the European regulations make sure that seed comes from quality sources. Because of the depredations in the United Kingdom over two world wars, there are not many quality oak woods left in this country, but there are enough in good years for our requirements. I hesitate to tell the noble Lord (but I shall whisper it to him) that the English oak is actually French.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, following my noble friend's supplementary question, is the Minister aware that were this Question to refer to British people we would discuss it in the context of ethnic cleansing? Is that not a pertinent fact?
§ Lord GisboroughMy Lords, is it not true that almost all of our trees, except for the silver birch, have been imported? We have hundreds of different species, not one of which is native.
Lord LucasMy Lords, 12,000 or so years ago we had very little vegetation in this country. Almost everything has come from the Continent. We have done very well by it.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, does my noble friend foresee any risks to existing food chains leading to reductions in the numbers of specific species, for example, the red squirrel and certain species of bird?
Lord LucasMy Lords, it is my brief experience that "squirrel nutkin" will eat almost anything that looks like a nut and does not care from where it comes.