HL Deb 03 December 1996 vol 576 cc584-6

3.13 p.m.

Lord Carter asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is the latest assessment of the number of cattle required to be slaughtered for a BSE selective slaughter scheme to be successful.

Lord Lucas

My Lords, the estimate given at Florence for the maximum number of animals to be slaughtered under a selective slaughter scheme was 128,000. No more recent estimate is available. Whether such a scheme might be regarded by the noble Lord as successful would depend on, among other things, his definition of success.

Lord Carter

My Lords, is the Minister aware that on 4th July his right honourable friend the Prime Minister, in reply to a question from the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Tony Blair, said of a slaughter scheme that there are: two fundamental reasons why the policy is necessary. The first is to ensure public health".—[Official Report, Commons, 4/7/96; col. 1049.]? At the end of that reply he also referred to the need to deal with the matter in the interests of public health. If, according to the Prime Minister, there was a fundamental public health requirement to introduce this scheme why have the Government done nothing since April when they first announced it?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, I do not have with me the particular quotation with which the noble Lord has enlivened the House. However, from all that has been said of the selective slaughter scheme it is clear that it has no public health implications. We in this country are dealing with a situation in which no possibly infected material does or can reach the consumers. Slaughtering animals early may have the advantage of allowing the European Union to relax its restrictions, but as far as I am aware the procedure has no other possible advantage.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that British beef is now at least as safe as any other beef in Europe? That being the case, if neither the Commission nor the member states have yet been able to produce a definite number or a date by which the ban can be suspended, does he also agree that to continue the cull would be both pointless and cruel?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, I entirely agree with what my noble friend said at the beginning of his question. British beef is safe and certainly as safe as beef from any other country in Europe. However, whether or not to undertake the selective cull is a matter of fine judgment. If we undertake it we shall be putting our partners on the spot; we shall have complied with all the five points agreed at Florence and it will be up to them to carry out their part of the bargain. If my noble friend has doubts about whether our partners will do that, so do I.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the selective cull, together with the newly introduced scheme for killing dairy cross-beef cows, will in a very short time lead to a dearth of beef in this country? What is to happen about imported beef, upon which we must rely if we continue to eat beef, in order to ensure that it meets the health standards of this country?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, there is very little that we can do that we do not do already to make sure that beef coming into this country meets the proper health standards.

Lord Hylton

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House how many cattle have so far been slaughtered under the various schemes? Does he agree that the eradication of BSE is the objective?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord's second point. Under the over 30 months scheme we have slaughtered about 1 million cattle. All the predictions are that following that course we will see the end of the disease for all practical purposes by about the year 2001.

Lord Carter

My Lords, in reply to my first supplementary question, the Minister said that there is no public health implication. I quoted the Prime Minister saying on 4th July that the fundamental reason was to ensure public health. Whom do we believe, the Prime Minister or the noble Lord?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, one would always believe the Prime Minister. I do not have the particular quotation that the noble Lord gave and therefore I do not have its context. I can give the noble Lord only my understanding, which is certainly junior to that of the Prime Minister.

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