BSE (Health) (Hansard, 29 April 1996)

Lord Lucas
My Lords, Section 13(1) of the Food Safety Act 1990 enables the Minister to make an emergency control order if it appears to him that, inter alia, there may be an imminent risk of injury to health.
The SEAC statement of 20th March outlined proposed new measures to counteract just such a potential risk. The SEAC recommended the deboning of all meat from animals over 30 months old and stated that, as long as all their recommendations were in place, the risk from eating beef would be extremely small. As it was not possible to put in place deboning measures immediately, the Government acted expeditiously to remove from the human food chain meat from animals over 30 months old as an interim measure.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. However, is he aware that the Government are 1403 widening the original powers that they took under the order? As the Minister said, correctly, Section 13(1) of the Food Safety Act requires an, imminent risk of injury to health", before the emergency control orders can be brought in. Ministers have continually told us over the past five weeks that beef is safe to eat. Where is the imminent risk to health, therefore, as required by the Act?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I pointed out the word "may" that appears in the Act. The possible imminent risk to health is that which we avoided by the measures that we have taken.

§ Lord Dixon-Smith
My Lords, does not my noble friend agree that the scope for calm and rational action in this field has been made much more difficult by the unjustified export ban on British beef by Brussels? That confirmed in the public's mind that the linkage between BSE and CJD is not a risk but is a fact. That thereby accelerated and deepened the collapse of the beef market across the whole of the continent of Europe.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, he who shoots before thinking should make sure that his own foot is not in the way.

§ Lord Hooson
My Lords, there has been research in this country on the possibility of a connection between BSE and the human disease CJD, as well as research in the United States and other European countries. Is it not possible, therefore, to produce an internationally agreed statement on what the risk really is?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, there is widespread scientific understanding of the risk in terms of eating beef, which is negligible. However, there is no political agreement to say that.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, is there not a sharp contrast between the attitude of Her Majesty's Government towards the risk to health from BSE and the risk to health from the use of organophosphates? The Government require a high level of proof in the case of organophosphates and apparently a low level of proof in the case of BSE and CJD.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, the level of proof required is that which we can best establish. There is a fundamental difference between a disease which has a definable course and a definable cause and which we know how to avoid and one about which, as in the case of the potential link between CJD and BSE, there is so much that is unknown and uncertain.

§ Lord Tebbit
My Lords, cannot my noble friend confirm that the definitive political statement on the risk of eating beef has been made? It was made by the European Communities Commissioner for Agriculture 1404 who said that beef was safe to eat. Under those circumstances, why do we fly in the face of such an authoritative statement and say that it may not be?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, we entirely agree with Commissioner Fischler that beef is safe to eat as a result of the measures that we have taken.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, in light of what has just been said, can the Minister comment on the news that came over the radio at 2 o'clock that all the other 14 European Union Ministers of Agriculture decided this afternoon to refuse to withdraw the ban on the export of British beef?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I am afraid that I was busy doing other things at 2 o'clock.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, are not the only questions about health in this sorry tale the growing doubts about the mental health of the European Commission?

Lord Lucas
No, my Lords.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, the Minister must still explain why Her Majesty's Government obeyed a Commission decision which was in itself illegal, and everybody knows that it was illegal, including those who issued it. Why do we obey it when it is illegal?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, we obey the law because it is the right thing to do and it is what we wish other people to do. If we disagree with the decision, as we do, the right action is to challenge it in the courts, as we intend to do.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, if it is possible to argue that a selective procedure can produce a substantial reduction in the incidence of BSE, as the Government claim, can the Minister tell the House why the scheme was not introduced before?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, in our view it is not necessary for health or for the industry.

§ Lord Grantchester
My Lords, the consequences of the 30-month rule are of great concern to dairy farmers—the isolation of cull animals from the beef market. Bearing that in mind and the fact that several beef breeds are embarrassed by the rule, have the Government given consideration to altering the 30-month rule to a fixed date?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, we shall give consideration to all such matters when the current interim order comes to be replaced by a permanent regulation under Section 16(1)(f)(ii) of the Food Safety Act 1990.