Grant-Maintained Schools (Hansard, 17 October 1995)

§ The Minister of State, Department of Education and Employment (Lord Henley)
My Lords, grant-maintained status is the best route for ensuring good management and high standards in schools. We are considering ways of extending the benefits of self-government to all schools and will be consulting shortly on means of smoothing the path to self-government for Church schools.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, does the Minister recall the Prime Minister saying during the Recess that his aim is for all schools to be grant maintained? It may have been a touch of summer madness. As, after four years, only 1,100 schools out of 24,000 have chosen to opt out, following incentives amounting to millions of pounds, will the Government give a firm assurance that they will not dispense with ballots?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister stated quite clearly that it was his ambition to see all schools benefit from the advantages that accrue from having self-governing status. He then said that he hoped that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and the department could look at ways of achieving that policy. For the moment grant-maintained status remains voluntary but we believe, and the Prime Minister believes, that the benefits of GM status are so great that they could and should be extended, where possible, to all schools.

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, can the Minister assure the House that under the proposed changes the parents of children in Church schools will be able to express their views about any proposals for GM status in exactly the same way as the parents of children in non-Church schools? Does the Minister agree that in many cases the Church authorities, the governors and the parents are of the opinion that the good relationship that exists between local education authorities and Church authorities should be respected and maintained and not smoothed away, to use the Minister's euphemism?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I do not believe I used a euphemism. We believe that there are terrific advantages in all schools having the benefit of grant-maintained status. The Prime Minister made it clear that he would look first of all at voluntary-aided schools. I mentioned those in my introductory Answer We are looking at possible ways of fast-tracking that process for Church schools. I shall not give any assurances one way or the other about what process we shall pursue when we have reviewed the matter but we believe that there are considerable advantages for Church schools and for other schools in pursuing this process.

§ Lord Morris of Castle Morris
My Lords, is it not a fact that the whole grant-maintained initiative is waning seriously already—1,100 out 24,000 after all this time—because, despite all the persuasions, all the inducements and all the threats, schools have looked at this initiative and they do not want it? Since the Government are absolutely determined to refuse to recognise that, is it not time that the Government had the courage either to try to make it compulsory by forcing through legislation or—far more preferable—to abandon this scheme altogether?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the grant-maintained school process has considerable support, as the noble Lord well knows, from those in his own party who have made use of the process. If the noble Lord thinks that the process is on the wane, perhaps I may remind him that at present one-in-five children in England in secondary education are at grant-maintained schools. It is very popular indeed with parents. I believe the process will grow as more schools see the advantages of it. In time we shall see all schools pursuing this process.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, while applauding what my noble friend has said about the Government's grant-maintained schools initiative, would he agree with me that there is another less obvious advantage in that some of even the nastier local 666 education authorities may behave better than they would have done were the prospect of grant-maintained status for their schools not available?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I would not want to single out any particular LEA but I can assure my noble friend that the process concentrates minds wonderfully.

§ Lord Ewing of Kirkford
My Lords, is the Minister aware that in Scotland only one school has opted out and that there has been only one other application to consider opting out? Against that background, will the Minister pay tribute to the comprehensive education system and its great success and give an absolute undertaking that nothing the Government do will undermine the comprehensive education system?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, like the great lexicographer Dr. Johnson, I should like to pay tribute to education in Scotland. But I am sure that even that number will expand in due course and that many more schools in Scotland will see the benefits of grant-maintained status. That one will grow to two; in time that will double again, and double again, and double yet further.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, did the noble Lord really mean to say that one in five children were in grant-maintained schools, or did I mishear him? If the number is only 1,100 out of 24,000 schools, the arithmetic seems very peculiar.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I can assure the noble Baroness that my arithmetic is not very peculiar. If she had listened to my remarks precisely she would realise that I said one in five children at secondary school stage were at grant-maintained schools.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, does my noble friend feel like reminding the Benches opposite when they persistently raise this subject that it took eight years for the first 1,000 schools to go comprehensive whereas, according to the noble Lord, Lord Dormand of Easington, it has taken four years for 1,000 schools to become grant-maintained? Surely that shows that the initiative is not working all that badly?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, my noble friend's arithmetic is very encouraging indeed. I am sure that in another four years, after the next election, when we have been returned to power for our fifth term, we shall see yet more schools pursuing the benefits of grant-maintained status.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that it is quite clear from what he told me in answer to my original Question that the Government are not ruling out dispensing with ballots? By the same token may I ask whether the Government intend to do anything about the fact that parent governors who were elected or appointed to governing bodies because they were the parents of children in schools do not now have children in the schools? In those circumstances, does he not agree that it is time that the Government gave further thought to having ballots at appropriate times? He may recall that when the legislation was being debated some of his noble friends suggested that that was essential. However, the original concept and purpose of the scheme has now passed.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord. I cannot give him the assurance that he would like. We believe that there are considerable benefits in the opt-out process and going grant maintained. In time we would like to see all schools pursue that aim.