HL Deb 29 November 1995 vol 567 cc571-3

3.2 p.m.

Baroness Castle of Blackburn asked Her Majesty's Government:

Which of the bids they have received for the Transport Research Laboratory they have shortlisted; which of those shortlisted are non-profit distributing concerns and what is the amount of the bid in each case.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, two bidders have been shortlisted in the sale of the Transport Research Laboratory. They are a consortium comprising Pell Frischmann Consulting Engineers Limited, Mouchel Associates Limited, the Automobile Association and the Royal Automobile Club; and the Transport Research Foundation, which includes members of TRL's existing management. The foundation is bidding to acquire TRL as a non-profit distributing company. The AA and RAC are non-profit distributing concerns. The amount of each bid is confidential.

Baroness Castle of Blackburn

Is the Minister really telling us that we are not to be allowed to know what has influenced the Government financially in the size of the different bids, in view of their overwhelming anxiety to get money at any cost or quality in order to prop up their tottering finances? When will we know what the Government's motives have been? Is it not a fact that the alternative bidder—the Pell Frischmann, Mouchel, AA, RAC consortium—consists of concerns that have vested interests in one side of transport—namely, road construction and car owners—and therefore is incapable of taking an overall view of what is required for research in the transport industry as a whole?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I certainly do not agree with the noble Baroness that because those concerns have interests in certain areas they are not capable of owning and running a company that produces independent research. One only has to look at all kinds of companies in the private sector which produce independent research, for which the Government are often a customer.

I have forgotten the first part of the question. Will the noble Baroness please repeat it?

Baroness Castle of Blackburn

Is the Minister serious? I thought that it was one of his evasions. I am glad to have the opportunity to repeat the question.

Is the Minister really telling us that this House is not entitled to know the price which has been offered by each of the concerns and therefore what has been the nature of the financial inducement to the Government to sacrifice quality to their desperate need to prop up their tottering finances?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I remember it now. As the noble Baroness will be very well aware, our finances are not tottering. They are in extremely good health. She should have listened to my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday when he detailed exactly how they stand. We are in the middle of a competitive bidding process. It would not be in the interests of fair competition, which I am sure the noble Baroness wants, to disclose the amounts at this stage.

Lord Haskel

My Lords, in view of the fact that the National Engineering Laboratory was sold for minus £1.95 million, will the Minister tell us whether the Road Research Laboratory will be sold for a plus or minus amount?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, where there have been instances of businesses being sold for a net minus sum, there have been considerable liabilities which have been taken over. I should not like to comment at this stage on the amount we expect to receive for the laboratory. The noble Lord will have to wait and see. I am sure that he will be very pleased when he finds out.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, is the Minister aware that we do not worry about his forgetting the questions; it is his answers that cause great anxiety? Will the Minister give the House some indication as to when this absurd process is likely to end? Can he also indicate to the House why it is that the Government are continuing with this illogical attempt to decimate an institution which has organised itself in such a way that the country can be wholly proud of its activities?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, the country can be proud of the good quality research that has been produced by the laboratory. We believe that the country will continue to be proud of it in the future when the laboratory is fully in the private sector. To answer the noble Lord's question about the timetable, the shortlisted bidders have been asked to submit their final bids by 21st December. We expect an announcement of the selected purchaser to follow early in the new year.

Baroness Castle of Blackburn

s: Has the Minister also forgotten the report of the Select Committee on Transport in another place, which said that it could not recommend privatisation to the Commons unless there were far greater guarantees that the independence and impartiality of the privatised concern would be safeguarded? Has not his evasiveness today proved that we can have no confidence whatsoever that his choice will safeguard that impartiality?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I hope that I have not been evasive today. I have sought to answer the questions that have been put to me. We will ensure that TRL's independence and impartiality are safeguarded when the institution is brought into the private sector. That is a commitment and it is one that we stand by.

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