HL Deb 27 November 1995 vol 567 cc455-7

2.52 p.m.

Lord Bruce of Donington asked Her Majesty's Government:

What were the circumstances in which European Union expenditure on population policies and programmes in developing countries, for which Community budget provision was made in 1990, has taken place without a legal basis; and what expenditure has so far taken place and what commitments have been entered into to date.

Lord Chesham

My Lords, the European Parliament has the power to create spending provisions without a legal base, as in this case. We have now secured a draft regulation. Our total commitments for 1990–94 are approximately 13.5 million ecus and the payments are 5.9 million ecus. No figures are yet available for 1995.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that is a quite extraordinary state of affairs? Expenditure under this heading was started in 1990 without there being any legal basis for it whatever, so much so that the Commission—not the European Parliament—published on 2nd October this year a proposal in order to regularise the position. How does that arise? Are we to assume that it is a matter of complete indifference to the Government whether or not money is spent on a legal basis by the European Community? That seems extraordinary.

Lord Chesham

My Lords, the UK has taken the lead in pressing for legal bases for all significant budget provisions. One result was a Commission communication in March proposing that any significant new provision should provide a legal base and that all existing provisions over 5 million ecus should be given a legal base. I should add that the actual expenditure in 1990 was zero.

The Earl of Onslow

My Lords, is my noble friend saying that the European Union is to legalise retroactively any amount of money that the European Parliament has spent whether or not it has a legal right to do so? If that is the case, it is a complete disgrace and an abuse of parliamentary privilege.

Lord Chesham

My Lords, the European Parliament has the last word as regards those parts of the aid budget. Therefore, the Council cannot enforce a block on spending without a legal base.

Lord Belhaven and Stenton

My Lords, my noble friend gives the figures in ecus. Will my noble friend tell us what is an ecu in currencies which we understand; for example, pounds, francs or deutschmarks?

Lord Chesham

My Lords, on the basis of the conversion that I have, 13.5 million ecus converts to about £10.2 million; and 5.9 million ecus converts to about £4.5 million.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Commission's own proposals of 2nd October last set out the alleged justification, which is Article 130 of the treaty? But the treaty was not signed until December 1991. In any event, Article 130 provides only for aid to be organised by the Commission on a complementary basis to that already undertaken by member states. Is he aware that we have it on an authoritative basis that the aid provided by member states tends to be dealt with rather more skilfully than that provided by the co-ordination process of a Brussels bureaucracy?

Lord Chesham

My Lords, the Commission proposed in September that the regulation on aid for population programmes, which is the purpose of this Question, should be governed by line B7-5050. An explanatory memorandum was submitted on 26th October and the proposal is broadly along the right lines.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, surely my noble friend Lord Bruce of Donington is right to say that aid programmes are administered more efficiently and better by member states rather than by the Commission. Is that not more so in the case of the £4,000 million which is to be spent for the next five years in North Africa to prevent, apparently, the North Africans invading Greece, Portugal and Spain, which the taxpayer already subsidises to a very large extent?

Lord Chesham

My Lords, there is a place for multilateral and bilateral aid. To say that one is better than another in one instance is probably not appropriate. The total Commission aid for population and reproductive health, including the EC budget and Lomé, committed between 1990 and 1994 was approximately 154 million ecus—approximately £128 million. The ODA UK expenditure on population and reproductive health programmes nearly doubled between 1990 and 1994 to £43.5 million. That includes significant spending on HIV and AIDS.