Consolidated Fund Bills: Procedure (Hansard, 6 November 1995)

§ The Chairman of Committees (Lord Boston of Faversham)
My Lords, the Procedure Committee has considered this Question twice in recent times: in January 1993 and in March of the same year. On each occasion the committee endorsed the guidance given in the Companion that procedures on Consolidated Fund Bills are, by convention, taken formally. I have given 1574 notice that the committee will be asked to meet early in the new Session of Parliament on 27th November. At that meeting it will consider the matter again on the basis of submissions by the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, and my noble and learned friend Lord Simon of Glaisdale.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. However, can he explain why this simple and straightforward issue involved such a long delay on the part of the Procedure Committee, leisurely body though it may be?

§ The Chairman of Committees
My Lords, I take full responsibility for the delay and would not wish to suggest in any way that it was the fault, if fault there be, of the Procedure Committee. First, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, and to my noble and learned friend Lord Simon of Glaisdale for the delay. Perhaps I can remind the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, that it was in March, some seven months ago, that the noble Lord submitted the memoranda on the matter.
The reason for the delay is that, as your Lordships will be aware, the Procedure Committee has been preoccupied with the report of the sub-committee of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Griffiths, on declaration and registration of interests. I was anxious that the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, should not come to the committee and have to wait an interminable and perhaps intolerable time before being able to put these matters before it. I therefore take full responsibility for the delay. As it was necessary for the Procedure Committee to decide the matters arising from the sub-committee of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Griffiths, as quickly as possible, I felt it right that the meetings on 17th July and 16th October should be devoted almost entirely to that issue. That at least enabled declaration and registration—they are not insignificant matters—to be brought before your Lordships at as early a date as possible.

§ Lord Simon of Glaisdale
My Lords, we are grateful to the Chairman of Committees for his explanation. No deliberative Chamber in the world matches your Lordships' wealth of experience and knowledge on economics, finance, commerce, industry and all budgetary matters. Is it not therefore strange that there is no opportunity for your Lordships to give counsel on such matters between the Finance Bill in the spring and the debate on the Queen's Speech in the late autumn? Is not there a tendency to regard your Lordships' primary role as merely to process through great gobbets of government legislation?

§ The Chairman of Committees
My Lords, I would not attempt to challenge the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Simon, in relation to the knowledge, expertise and ability in your Lordships' House. That is clearly evident. The question of debates is a matter for the business of the House rather than for the Procedure Committee. If the noble and learned Lord is suggesting, arising from his supplementary question, that he is seeking a more limited opportunity to debate Consolidated Fund Bills—say just in the summer—on 1575 the Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill rather than on all the Consolidated Fund Bills, that may well be a matter which the Procedure Committee will wish to take into account when it meets on 27th November. No doubt the noble and learned Lord will wish to ensure that that issue is in the minds of members of the Procedure Committee for that occasion.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that while some of us on this side of the House who are interested in these matters wish to express our agreement with the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, on his repeated insistence on raising these matters, we thank the noble Lord for his initiative?

§ The Chairman of Committees
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington. I am conscious that differences of view exist. The Procedure Committee has, on more than two occasions over the years, considered this matter and brought it before your Lordships. In the past your Lordships have wished to adhere to the previous practice.