HL Deb 01 November 1995 vol 566 cc1419-21

The Countess of Mar asked Her Majesty's Government:

What action they propose to take in the light of the award made to a sheep shearer by the Supreme Court of New South Wales, Australia (October 1995) for damages for chronic ill health caused by his exposure to sheep which had been treated with the organophosphate Diazinon.

Lord Lucas

My Lords, none. The plaintiff's exposure to Diazinon in the Australian case was the result of a failure to take basic occupational hygiene measures during the shearing process, and the United Kingdom health and safety legislation is already sufficient to prevent this when properly complied with. The plaintiff's long-term symptoms were typical of those experienced by some people after short duration, high level exposures leading to acute poisoning.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. I must confess that it is a little disappointing, but I did not expect much more. In view of the fact that Her Majesty's Government and manufacturers failed to warn farmers and doctors until 1991 of the acute effects, commonly known as dipping flu, I again ask the noble Lord to look seriously at the cases of the people who believe they have been affected by organophosphates. Is he aware that not one of them has been approached by either the Ministry of Agriculture or the Department of Health to see what they are suffering from, and the epidemiological study which is now in progress will not cover those people?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, I shall bring the remarks of the noble Countess to the attention of my colleagues at the Department of Health. I do not have an answer to the question she raised.

Lord Carter

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, besides the case in Australia, a sheep farmer in this country was awarded damages for OP poisoning by an industrial tribunal in Newcastle in December 1994? Since that poisoning took place during the years when the Government imposed compulsory sheep dipping, does the Minister agree that the Government's arguments that these products are safe look increasingly threadbare?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, organophosphorus is a very toxic substance. It is a nerve poison of some known potency. It is necessary to be extremely cautious when using it. However, if used safely, like many other medicines and insecticides it is safe.

Lord Carter

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. Can he tell the House how many of the 90,000 sheep farmers have passed the test of competence introduced by the Government as a safety measure?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, anyone who purchases OP sheep dips these days has to have that certificate of competence. So far as I am aware, to date about 12,000 people have that certificate. However, we are certain there is no route whereby OP sheep dips can he purchased without one.

The Earl of Clanwilliam

My Lords, will my noble friend assure the House that organophosphate resins are not used on milking dairy cows? Will he accept the danger, however remote, of contamination as a result of using that process?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, OP pour-ons are used, and have been used for a long time, on dairy cows. They are put on straight after milking so that there is no risk of contamination at milking time. As I am sure noble Lords are aware, hygiene standards in dairies are very high these days; otherwise, contamination of the milk with bacteria would be picked up in the dairies and would result in the farmer facing unpleasant financial consequences.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that not only sheep farmers but also dairy farmers believe that they are suffering from organophosphate poisoning? Tests with sheep dip prove that the organophosphate remains in the sheep's wool until at least 10 weeks after dipping. Is it not carrying belief a little too far to consider that a dairy farmer can work in an enclosed milking parlour within about eight hours of pouring an organophosphate product on to the back of his cows without being affected? What tests have been undertaken to prove that the product is absolutely safe?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, I am not aware that any problem with cows has been brought to our notice resulting from use of organophosphorus pour-ons. Regarding the alleged chronic effects of organophosphorus compounds, the noble Countess will be aware that we are currently spending £0.5 million on the study to find out whether there are any such effects. To date, we have no evidence that there are.

Lord Ashley of Stoke

My Lords, having listened to the marvellous campaign waged by the noble Countess, and having heard the Minister, I am more convinced by the noble Countess's allegations than by the Minister's defensive replies. Instead of waiting for complaints to be made to them, is it not time for the Government to approach farmers in order to investigate the allegations and do something positive?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, as I said, we are spending £0.5 million on the matter. I congratulate the noble Countess on her campaign which she has waged long and hard. I have listened to it with great interest over many years. It is no mean compliment to her efforts that we are spending £0.5 million in pursuit of a symptom which we have no evidence exists.