National Curriculum (Hansard, 23 May 1995)

Lord Lucas
My Lords, the best way to improve standards is to ensure that training is focused on essential teaching competences. The Government have set out those competences and revised them in recent years to reflect national curriculum requirements. We believe that it is unnecessary to be more prescriptive about course content, which is a matter for the provider, in higher education or elsewhere.

§ Lord Quirk
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that response. But is it not alarming that in the 12 subject reports just issued by Ofsted there runs a dismal leitmotiv concerning teachers in all of the subjects who are deficient and regarded as incompetent by the inspectors? Is it not particularly alarming that in three of the subjects concerned, arguably the most fundamental for our future—English, maths and science—inspectors found and complained that one teacher in five is either bad at teaching, or bad at the subject that she or he is paid to teach, or both? Is it not the case that if it were one in five of our surgeons or our airline pilots we might be taking more urgent action?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, first, I should like to praise Ofsted for the production of these booklets. If noble Lords have not had a chance to consult them I recommend that they do so. They provide a very thorough and full picture of the state of teaching in our state schools and of what remains to be done to improve it. One thing that clearly remains to be done, as the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, pointed out, is to improve the quality of teaching. I should say that Ofsted reports on the quality of lessons, not the quality of teachers. It could just as well be a case of a good teacher on a bad day as a bad teacher in his or her permanent condition. There is clearly a lot to be done, and the Teacher Training Agency, as it has been set up and as it makes progress, will clearly be a major instrument in putting the matter right.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, does not the Minister think that it would be very helpful if the inspectors could follow up the inspections and the criticisms that they have made and give active advice and go back to the schools with help, as the LEA inspectors did. They had an advisory as well as an inspectorial role. That seems to me to be what is lacking at the moment.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, the noble Baroness makes a very good point.

§ Lord Quirk
My Lords, I may have misunderstood the Minister but is it not the case that in each of these admirable documents there is a section not on the quality of the pupils but on the quality of teaching?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, yes, I may not have expressed myself well. The reports address the quality of teaching. I agree with the figures that the noble Lord quoted. It is a matter which we are addressing with great seriousness.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, did my noble friend see an article in the Daily Mail a week ago which reported enormous differentials in the cost of similar teacher training courses at different institutions? For instance, is he aware that it was alleged that one course can cost as much as 18 times more than a similar course at another institution?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, yes, I saw that report; and, indeed, I believe that the facts are true. I understand that the Teacher Training Agency has appointed Coopers & Lybrand to look into the reasons which underlie that position. Into each young accountant's life a little joy must fall. Had I been a young accountant at Coopers & Lybrand now, I should have been pushing to get on to that investigation. Such extraordinary differences are rare. They may be common in university accounting, but in the world outside such extraordinary differences create excitement in the heart of every accountant. I see that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, shares that excitement. It would be a wonderful investigation to be on.

§ Lord Morris of Castle Morris
My Lords, does Her Majesty's Government accept that, in order to improve the subject competence of those teachers in subjects where it is known to be difficult to recruit the most able students to the profession, it is necessary not simply to impose a curriculum but to increase the wages of all teachers?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, no, I do not follow that argument. The route by which to increase the status and remuneration of the teaching profession is to increase its competence and quality.

§ Baroness Faithfull
My Lords, since the passing of the education legislation have special inspectors been taken on to deal with the section of the Act relating to special needs children? A number of teachers do not seem to know how to deal with children with special needs.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I cannot answer my noble friend's question, but I shall write to her.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that it is most important for teacher training institutions to obtain the right balance between the academic study of education and the practical training of teachers? Both factors are important. However, perhaps I may suggest that the Government have got the balance wrong in their most recent legislation. Will the Minister give an assurance that what has been proposed and what is being undertaken is monitored continually to ensure that we achieve the best results?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, we monitor what is going on exceptionally closely because we believe that it is the principal area through which we can greatly affect in the near future the quality of what takes place in our schools. However, the initial reports from Ofsted and 918 the Teacher Training Agency indicate that the balance between schools and the higher education institutions is now about right. The balance is now more equal. Higher education institutions used to dictate the terms; it is now much more a partnership. In those cases where the training takes place principally in schools—it is a small proportion of teacher training places—it provides an excellent education in particular for adults coming new to teaching with wide experience of the outside world.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, does the Minister agree that it would be for the education of the House if acronyms such as Ofsted were printed in full?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I believe that that is a matter for Hansard. However, it is certainly quicker to say "Ofsted" than the "Office for Standards in Education" on every occasion.
Since the noble Lord raises that matter—the subject of quangos is much in the press at present—I ask him to agree that in particular Ofsted and the Teacher Training Agency, being independent from the Department for Education, do a job which could not be undertaken as well or as effectively were they merely a group within the department. Those bodies demonstrate what a valuable organ a quango is when properly set up.