Ambassadors' Pay (Hansard, 22 May 1995)

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the private-sector members of the Remuneration Committee will bring a number of relevant qualities to their task, including understanding of the work of our missions abroad.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that relations between countries are complicated, broad and manifold and that the ambassador of one country to another should be charged not only with improving commercial relations but also with the political, scientific, cultural, military, social, financial and sporting relations between the two countries? Why have the Government chosen only to have business men help them set the rates of pay and not people from all those other walks of life as well?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I must tell the noble Lord, Lord Kennet, that I am surprised both by his Question and by his supplementary. I say that because, on 9th May, the noble Lord tabled six Written Questions on the subject and was given six very expensive Written Answers. As the noble Lord already knows, the important point is what qualities, including experience in setting public and private sector pay, those people can bring to bear. We are confident that Sir Denys Henderson, Sir Michael Perry and Mr. Allan Gormly have the necessary qualities. Perhaps the noble Lord should look again at the Written Answers.

§ Lord Wright of Richmond
My Lords, does the Minister agree that increasing emphasis has been given in recent years to the role which the Diplomatic Service can play in promoting and protecting our commercial and economic interests overseas? Does the Minister also agree that it is, therefore, entirely appropriate that the business sector, which probably has a better opportunity than any outsiders to observe the effectiveness and performance of Her Majesty's Missions abroad, should be on the Remuneration Committee?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Wright, should know the answer, if anyone does. However, I should tell him that, although the promotion of British commercial interests is a key objective, it does not follow from the appointment of eminent business men to the Remuneration Committee that Britain has only business interests abroad. Indeed, the noble Lord has enumerated some of the other interests.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, can the noble Baroness give the House an assurance that the chairmen of privatised industries are excluded from that task?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, it entirely depends on their qualifications.

§ Baroness Park of Monmouth
My Lords, can my noble friend the Minister say whether any members of the committee will be spending, by way of market testing, a year with their families in one or two of the more salubrious posts, such as Angola or Rwanda? I believe that that might be a helpful contribution.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, in answer to my noble friend, I am sure that most of your Lordships would share with me the wish that we should be proud of our embassies and of the jobs that they undertake. There are parts of the world where it is uncomfortable and often dangerous. I should remind the House of the murder of the husband of the late Lady Ewart-Biggs for one; indeed, other Members of the House have also suffered in a like way. Our Foreign Service is the envy of the world.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, whatever Answers may have been given, expensive or otherwise, to the Written Questions tabled by my noble friend, is there not a serious issue of principle involved? Is not the whole concept of performance related pay for top officials in the public sector utterly absurd? Surely all 11 of the occupants of those top FCO posts should be carefully selected and capable of performing at the highest level on an agreed public sector salary. Does the Minister accept that the notion that they need performance related incentives at that level is thoroughly objectionable? Further, can the Minister indicate how any committee of business men—or, indeed, anyone else for that matter—will be able to measure accurately their performance and then link it to pay accordingly?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, we believe that, taken together, the factors listed in the terms of reference, including the level of responsibility, performance and experience, will provide the Remuneration Committee with a sound basis for making proposals. I should also point out that the purpose of the committee is for the private sector members to make proposals to the Secretary of State on the pay of individual Grade I ambassadors, save in so far as their pay is determined by the terms of an individual appointment.

§ Lord Geddes
My Lords, does not my noble friend agree that there seems to be a slight misconception as regards the definition of "business man"? The noble Lord, Lord Kennet, rattled off a large string of other activities. Does not my noble friend agree that all of these are in themselves also businesses and therefore run by business men?

§ Baroness Trumpington
Yes, my Lords. But business is not their only occupation.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that if these business men apply the same principles—if that is what you call them—to the determination of the pay of ambassadors as they do to setting their own remuneration, it is likely to be a rather expensive exercise for the taxpayer?

§ Baroness Trumpington
No, my Lords.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, would my noble friend agree that as it is in fact the profitable activity of business and industry which produces the taxes which pay the salaries of all the service sections of our economy, including the Foreign Office, the Government have got it entirely right on this occasion?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend.

§ Lord Thomson of Monifieth
My Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that with the break-up of the Soviet empire there are now a great many more ambassadorial posts in the Diplomatic Service? Is it not very important to look for younger people in the Diplomatic Service with good ideas and enterprise to fill these posts?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I believe that is happening.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister can help us just a little. What on earth is the point of this exercise as regards senior ambassadors? Is it seriously believed by the Government that if one has a performance related exercise our ambassadors will do the job better in future than they have done in the past? Is that not somewhat degrading as regards the Government's opinion of those people?

§ Baroness Trumpington
No, my Lords. The committee, with a private sector majority, will help ensure maximum objectivity in recommendations put to the Foreign Secretary.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, what does maximum objectivity mean in this respect? What on earth are the Government playing at here?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I happen to like those words.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, does the noble Baroness accept that I may have been in order to put down an Oral Question on the same subject as that on which I have put down numerous Written Questions, first, because I was not satisfied with the Answers to the Written Questions and, secondly, because I thought it would be a good idea for everyone to have an opportunity to comment on this, which they have?