Channel 5 (Hansard, 16 May 1995)

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of National Heritage (Viscount Astor)
My Lords, no, the award of the Channel 5 licence is a matter for the Independent Television Commission.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, does the Minister agree that anyone who establishes a dominant position in the media can control much of what people read, see and hear, and can influence a great deal of what they think? Would not one small, sensible step be to delay the granting of the Channel 5 licence until the new cross-media rules can guarantee that no person and no group can exploit its cross-media capacity?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, the process for choosing a licence holder for Channel 5 is being conducted under long-standing rules legislated in your Lordships' House in 1990 in the Broadcasting Act.

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, surely my noble friend is right. It is dotty that 18 months ago the Government announced that the rules under which the channel allocations were made were inappropriate and out of date but now have such an allocation taking place under those rules. We can read in the newspapers about the new cross-media rules down to the detail of what every Cabinet Minister said. When will the Government grant the House the favour of learning what their new cross-media rules are?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, I do not need to warn the noble Lord, Lord Donoughue, not to believe everything that he reads in the newspapers. However, I can tell him that we shall be publishing our rules on cross-media ownership somewhere between soon, shortly and in the near future. The noble Lord can read into that as he wishes.
Perhaps I may return to a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Ashley of Stoke. I assumed that he was referring to a bid made in conjunction with News International. That was the fourth bid on the list for the new Channel 5 licence and it was for the lowest amount of money. The ITC is publishing summaries of the applications and is inviting comments by 13th June. Those summaries will be available in ITC offices, selected libraries throughout the country and, of course, the Library of your Lordships' House. The public will be able to give their views on the applicants' proposals, in particular with regard to the nature and balance of the programmes proposed. The ITC intends to announce its decision by 30th November. If a licence is awarded Channel 5 will begin no later than 1st January 1997.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, it may be a good joke to talk about shortly, in the near future and so forth. However, are we not entitled to a more serious answer 413 to the Question? A large number of people want to know the answer and therefore is not something a little better than the Minister has given called for?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, I can add no more. Our conclusions will be announced in due course.

§ Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, has any of the proposed European legislation been taken into consideration in respect of cross-media ownership?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, we are aware of the EC Green Paper on pluralism and media concentration in the internal market. The Government will soon be responding to the Commission's questionnaire on pluralism and media concentration. That response will reflect the Government's assessment of the way forward in this country. A copy will be placed in the Library of your Lordships' House.

§ Lord Barnett
My Lords, do the Government still believe that there is a case for Channel 5?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, yes, we do. The case is proved by the fact that four bids were made for the licence.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, what would the view of the Government have been if News International's bid had been the top bid?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, that is an entirely hypothetical question. It was the lowest bid. Perhaps I may emphasise that it is for the ITC to decide and not the Government.

§ Lord Geddes
My Lords, my noble friend gave an answer about timing. Will he advise the House, even in general terms, the differential in timing that he envisages between the award of the Channel 5 licence and the cross-media ownership rules being in place? Are we talking of one year, five years or three months?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, I am afraid that my noble friend must wait until the Government announce their proposals on cross-media ownership. At this stage I can give him no further clue.

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, as we are still waiting for the decision to be made there is time for discussion. Will the Minister inform the Secretary of State for National Heritage that if it is true that he supported a 10 per cent. maximum holding, but that other Ministers supported a 29 per cent. holding, he will receive great sympathy if he continues to fight for the lower level?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, I must warn the noble Lord, Lord Donoughue, about believing what he reads in the newspapers. We have looked most carefully at cross-media ownership, which is an important issue. Our review aims to protect the pluralism and diversity of the media in this country while allowing companies to exploit new opportunities and to compete internationally.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the House realises that Mr. Murdoch and News International made the lowest bid? However, the Minister should not jump to the conclusion that Mr. 414 Murdoch is making any uncharacteristic mistakes. We do not know the true story of what is happening. However, let us assume that the Government are proved to be wrong, which would not be unprecedented, and that someone takes control to a large extent. In that case, will the Government plead that they do not believe in retrospective legislation?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, the noble Lord posed an interesting question. However, it was entirely speculative and hypothetical and I ant afraid that I cannot possibly answer it.