Northern Iraq: Withdrawal of Turkish Army (Hansard, 11 May 1995)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, the Turkish Government announced on 4th May that all Turkish troops have withdrawn from northern Iraq.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. Can she say whether the Government received independent verification that the withdrawal was complete? Also, have they received any guarantees from the Turkish Government that the invasion will not be repeated?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, we are not aware of any independent verification. We trust that the Turkish Government mean what they say. We shall be extremely concerned if there is any clear evidence that the withdrawal is not complete and will respond appropriately. In relation to guarantees that there will not be a recurrence, I understand that the Turkish Government are holding talks with the Kurdish groups in northern Iraq. Their aim is to make arrangements to prevent the PKK from operating from within northern Iraq. We support that approach of dialogue. We have also made it clear to the Turks that we shall be highly critical of any further incursions.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the President of Turkey claimed that the Turkish Government wish to withdraw the boundary between Turkey and northern Iraq in order to block the passage of PKK terrorists? Can the Minister make clear the Government's position on that extraordinary claim? Is it not vital that Iraq's territorial integrity should be respected and that that should be conveyed to the Turkish Government with urgency?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I too heard that remark. I am told that it was not authorised by the Government of Mrs. Ciller. Our position remains as it always has been: however much we dislike what is going on in Iraq, we must respect its territorial integrity.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, does the noble Baroness believe the Turkish Government's reasons for going into northern Iraq—to confront or chase up and destroy PKK guerillas? Was there not much more likely to be another agenda? I refer to their making a show of force to the Kurds in northern Iraq, possibly in league with Saddam Hussein, to show who is boss.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, we have no reason to believe that the Turks went into northern Iraq other than to stop the PKK operating from there into Turkey. We believe that that was their agenda and that there is not another agenda. But I learnt a long time ago never to rule out such things. From time to time one finds that something exists which has not been reported. As far as I am aware at this moment, there is no other agenda. We shall continue to press the Turks to find a political solution to the conflict in the south-east of Turkey and also to make rapid progress on democratic reform.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, have the Government received any news about the means adopted by the Turkish army to prevent the PKK operating in Turkey? Were any means used other than killing the terrorists; and how many in fact were killed?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I cannot answer the noble Lord in such detail without notice. We know that the visit of the OSCE mission to Turkey went well. The delegation saw all those that it requested to see 167 and it may provide further information of the sort requested by the noble Lord, in which case I shall pass it on to him.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, how does the noble Baroness suggest that Turkey should arrive at a political solution in the south-east? The Turks have eradicated the only party in that region which represents the aspirations of the Kurdish people. In relation to the negotiations undertaken by Ankara with the KDP, can the Minister confirm that the PUK were not also involved in those negotiations? I understand that they were demanding that the KDP be responsible for policing the border, and that Mr. Barzani, in return, asked for salaries to be paid to the peshmergas in charge of the operation. Does the noble Baroness think it is a good idea for one state to pay the armed forces of another state to guard a border for which it has responsibility? Is it not better that the Turks should look after their own security on the border rather than asking people across the frontier to do it for them?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, in response to the noble Lord's penultimate question, the answer is no. If the Turks need to police their border, they should do it themselves. I shall inquire into the answers to the noble Lord's other detailed questions, but I do not follow his line of questioning at all.

§ Lord Monkswell
My Lords, can the Government confirm reports that the offensive by the Turkish army in northern Iraq followed agreement for that action with the regime in Iraq? Can the Government also confirm that major troop activities by any NATO member need to be reported to the NATO centre, especially when that was done in regard to the Turkish army's offensive in northern Iraq?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, there is no evidence with regard to the noble Lord's first question. With regard to his second question, NATO members are not required to report, but since NATO members share on a regular basis in Brussels what is going on in their own countries, we knew at the time it was going on.

§ Lord Kilbracken
My Lords, can the noble Baroness say how the Turkish army are supposed to know whether the Kurds they are killing in northern Iraq are members of the PKK and not members of the PUK or the KDP?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I just hope that their intelligence is better than mine.