Renewable Energy Sources (Hansard, 28 March 1995)

The Minister of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Earl Ferrers)
Yes, my Lords. The Government's policy is to encourage the development of new and renewable energy sources wherever they have the prospect of being economically attractive and environmentally acceptable. The non-fossil fuel obligation is the principal vehicle for achieving that.

The Earl of Buchan
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his helpful Answer. Proverbs 15, verse 1, shall apply.
In cases of threatened wind farm turbine blight, as referred to in the authoritativeDaily Telegrapharticle yesterday—one at Carno in Wales and another to come at Barningham on the Yorkshire/Durham border—who is supposed to hold the general interest between the profit-orientated power companies, the people living in the area and the general environmental effect of turbines?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, before a wind turbine farm can be created, or any other type of generating capacity, it has to have planning permission. That is where the interests of the people in the locality are met, whether they are to encourage that form of electricity production or whether it would be too offensive for the locality. That is a matter for the planning authorities.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, has the Minister seen the reports that were published this week confirming the predictions of global warming which have been made in 1503 the past? Will the Government carry out a study on the implications of global warming for the United Kingdom? In particular, there is the predicted rise in sea levels around the United Kingdom by the year 2050. Would that not give the Government reason to encourage the use of renewable sources of energy to a greater extent, as well as putting more money into conservation?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I agree that global warming is a matter of anxiety. That is one of the reasons, but not the only reason, we encourage the generation of electricity by renewable sources. Quite a lot is being done.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, will the Government keep in mind the prospects of harnessing tidal energy or currents at sea, for example, in the Pentland Firth? That should not cause any disturbance on land or environmental objections. Although such projects have not so far proved to be economic, might they not become so as circumstances change?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, that is certainly true. While something may not be economic at one time, circumstances may change so that it may well become economic. However, until it does, one cannot do anything about it.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that wind turbines are visually ugly and destructive of the landscape? Is he further aware that 1,000 wind turbines are needed to provide as much energy as one 2,000 megawatt power station and that they require hundreds of acres of land? They are, therefore, wasteful of land. Will the Minister agree that the best way of obtaining energy is to conserve it? Will the Government assist householders and industry to do just that?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, that is a totally different twist to the Question. We encourage people to conserve energy. The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, said that wind turbines are ugly and he does not like looking at them. However, we all sometimes have to look at things that are ugly, as we know. I cannot quite understand why noble Lords find that so funny.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
You are not sitting where we are!

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the Opposition Chief Whip is becoming personal, but I was not. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

§ Lord Moyne
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, should not be allowed to get away with his statement on the waste of land? Sheep graze all around a wind farm and the only land used is the minuscule amount for each windmill. I find them attractive.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I am sure that that is an interesting question.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, will the Government bear in mind that those sources of power are fitful and their availability is unpredictable? Unless they work in conjunction with pumped storage of some kind, they are merely toys.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I do not like to disagree with the noble Earl, but I disagree totally with that comment. Vast quantities of renewable sources of energy are available. Under the non-fossil fuel obligation we are trying to encourage the companies and firms who are involved at the beginning of the enterprise to set it up so that it then becomes compatible with other systems. With the greatest respect, the noble Earl is not correct when he says that the systems are toys.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, would the noble Earl care to pass on his original Answer to his right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Wales? He said that the wind farms were acceptable if they were economically attractive as well as environmentally acceptable. Clearly, as the noble Earl rightly said, whether they are environmentally acceptable is a matter for the local authorities and planning procedure. Will he accept, however, that the renewable energy sources are only economically attractive if they are subsidised? Otherwise, they are economically wholly unattractive.

Earl Ferrers
No, my Lords. I do not entirely agree with the noble Lord. He asked a question and perhaps he will be good enough not to shake his head in dissent before I have even answered it. At the moment a certain amount of subsidy is given in order to enable those generating stations to compete and bring the price of electricity down to a competitive rate. When the period of subsidy is over, the stations may well reach a stage where they can contribute. The commercial market for renewable technologies in this country is estimated to be £3,000 million; throughout the world it is £30,000 million.