Somalia (Hansard, 22 March 1995)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, we shall continue to fund relief and rehabilitation projects through NGOs and UN agencies in areas where security permits.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Does she agree that in north-west Somalia there has been a surprising degree of stability? What have the British Government been able to do to support humanitarian and development operations in the north west? Are there any circumstances in which, in the absence of effective central government in Somalia as a whole, Britain might contemplate recognising the claim to secession of the people in the north west?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, on the first part of the question, we did of course have an NGO liaison officer in Hargeisa throughout last year until November when he had to be recalled because of the security situation. I am glad to tell the House that he re-established his office in Hargeisa on 19th March. He will continue to help the NGOs to focus on the rehabilitation of basic health and education. We must realise, however, that the NGOs are doing that against a background of the fighting still going on; 40 people were killed outside Hargeisa only a few days ago. As for any question of recognising the secession of north-west Somalia, it is much too early to talk in those terms. It is not something we have ever felt was right to do. What we hope to see is a coming together and reconciliation of the people of Somalia as a whole.

§ Lord Dubs
My Lords, in the Minister's view, what lessons have been learnt from the history of UN attempts to find a solution in Somalia?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the main lesson is that one cannot operate in a country where two or more groups are determined to continue fighting unless one is almost prepared to take sides. One of the difficulties faced by UNOSOM, which worked extremely well there for a number of months, was that it could never get an agreement with both sides which the clans kept. That has always been a problem. I should like to pay tribute to the UN agencies which have 1218 worked there and which continue to work in Somalia as a whole, which is something the people seem to have forgotten.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, is the Minister aware of reports from Africa Watch that Kenya has been the source of supplies of arms to some of the disruptive elements in the south of Somalia, particularly the Darod military factions? Will Her Majesty's Government investigate that and make representations to Kenya to ensure that that covert activity ceases?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, first, Kenya has been subjected to an incredible amount of pressure by the filtering of arms from Somalia into Kenya. If there were any truth in the allegation about the supply of arms from Kenya into Somalia, I am certain that the Government of Kenya would want nothing to do with it. One of the tragedies is that far too many arms are circulating in that whole area.

§ Viscount Waverley
My Lords, is the Minister in agreement with the policies of the international NGOs? What has been done by the ODA to strengthen the local network?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I do not think that the noble Lord could have been listening to what I said at the beginning. Our NGO liaison officer was there throughout most of last year until security in Hargeisa made it impossible for him to remain. Our staff have been working in Mogadishu throughout the troubles, helping those NGOs which have been brave enough to stay there. I heard only this morning that CARE International is putting expatriate staff back into Mogadishu at a time when things are not yet certain. We have been supporting the NGOs, and we intend to do so for as long as it is safe to do so.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, it looks as though the departure of the UN has forced the war lords in Mogadishu itself to come to some agreement. What is the Minister's prognosis for the security situation in the capital?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, whatever has forced the war lords to come together, they may stay together or drift apart as they have in the past. But far be it from me to try to predict anything about Somalia. I have lived with the problem for far too long to take such an unwise step.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, will the Minister accept that she has the support of the whole House in everything that she is trying to do in this difficult situation? Does she agree that one of the grave problems in Somalia has been the anarchy and the protection rackets? Is it not essential that those involved in non-governmental organisations, government and UN programmes, and so forth, work closely together to resist such exploitation? What is being done to achieve that wider co-ordination?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the noble Lord is right: resisting the pressures of protection rackets has been one of the hardest aspects. In the early days of UNOSOM great efforts were made by British nationals in the area and people from the United Nations 1219 to control the situation. However, during the second half of last year the situation again went from bad to worse. I shall look further into the present situation, but I can say that wherever non-governmental organisations are working they should always seek to resist protection rackets. The difficulty is that, if a single one gives way, all the rest are vulnerable, which has been the problem with which we have had to deal.

§ Lord Jenkins of Hillhead
My Lords, I hope that I do not embarrass the Minister by asking whether she is aware that her answers have been a mixture of clarity and concern, like a glass of refreshing spring water.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I take my bow. Thank you.