Wildlife (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 1995

HL Deb 08 March 1995 vol 562 cc383-5

10.46 p.m.

Baroness Denton of Wakefield rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 30th January be approved.

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, the purpose of the draft Wildlife (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 1995, which was laid before Parliament on 30th January 1995, is to make minor changes to the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985. The effect of these is to allow a system of annual general licences to be introduced for the year round control of magpies, crows and nine other species of "pest" bird. The changes are necessary to ensure that the legal basis for control of these pest species complies with the technical requirements of the EC Wild Birds Directive.

The Commission has previously ruled that derogations from this directive, which requires member states to protect all wild birds, must be specific as to time, place and the nature of the threat posed by the species concerned. A reasoned opinion issued by the Commission has recently held that a scheduled pest list, as currently provided by the 1985 order, does not meet these requirements although at the time the 1985 order was enacted it was believed that it complied fully with the directive. Farmers and others involved in pest control have found that the present arrangements under the 1985 order work well and it is important that they should be able to continue to deal with these pest species in the same effective manner, albeit using a different legislation framework.

Licences will be general—that is, individuals will not need a personal licence to carry out pest control—will be valid for a period of one year and will cover the whole of Northern Ireland. Licences will be in the following categories: one, the protection of any collection of wild birds and the preservation of public health or air safety; two, the prevention of the spread of disease and prevention of serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber and fisheries; and three, the conservation of wild birds.

There is no intention to alter the species covered by the licence. However, arrangements will be made to monitor the conservation status of the species concerned. The department will therefore be alerted if populations fall to a level where care is needed and appropriate action will be taken.

There has been widespread consultation in Northern Ireland about the proposal with interested parties. There was only one objection to the proposal. Some concern was expressed about the population status of some of the species listed. The long-term population trends of the species concerned are, however, either stable or increasing, and it is not considered that continued year-round pest control will have any detrimental effect on their status for the foreseeable future.

This order will ensure that we meet our obligations under the Wild Birds Directive. At the same time, it will enable us to introduce an efficient system of licensed pest control which will not place any additional burdens on farmers and others who need to carry out the action, and will allow them to protect their crops and also look after the interests of wild birds of a less well populated species.

I commend this order to your Lordships. I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 30th January be approved.—(Baroness Denton of Wakefield.)

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, again, I want to thank the Minister for explaining the purpose of the order, remedying, as it does, the defect, or a possible defect, in the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985. As I understand it, the order is required in order to comply fully with the EC wild birds directive. Were the Government pressed by the Commission to introduce this amending order? I ask that because I noticed that when the order was before the other place on 28th February a Member asked why it was necessary to amend the parent order (the 1985 order) given the doctrine of subsidiarity. He thought that in a small way it raised implications of subsidiarity. I am not sure that the question was answered fully by the Minister in the other place, so I should be grateful if the Minister would clarify the position briefly.

I turn to the merits of the order. I am aware of the concerns that so many species of birds have become extinct in the UK over the past 100 years. Having been brought up in the countryside, I appreciate fully that the aim must be to ensure that there is a reasonable balance between agriculture and conservation. I am glad that the Minister has been able to confirm that, apart from one, all the organisations involved in Northern Ireland which have been consulted have supported the order.

I have one further question for the Minister on conservation generally. Can the Minister tell the House how many staff are employed by the department or the Northern Ireland Office on conservation duties in Northern Ireland? I have no other questions, and hasten to say that we fully support the order.

Baroness Denton of Wakefield

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that support. In answer to the two questions that he asked, the directive does allow for member states to derogate from its general requirements and so gives them the ability to be masters in their own houses. We believe that that is important. Member states can make their own decisions on how they deal with pests. The existing legislation does not meet the requirements specified under which the derogation can take place.

The order will amend the existing legislation to enable Northern Ireland to take full advantage of the derogation provision while maintaining a simple and non-bureaucratic system for the control of these pest species. I can sum it up by saying that we are making an adjustment to the law, which allows us to make our own decisions. So we have the subsidiarity element, and we are meeting the legal requirements of a piece of European legislation. The noble Lord does not look as though he thinks that that is much clearer, but I hope that when he reads Hansard he will feel that I gave a rather better answer than he judged my honourable friend to have given.

The noble Lord was interested also in how many people are employed in the conservation of the countryside and wildlife. That is important to the Province because its beauty and natural habitats form part of what we can offer visitors. I am delighted to be able to tell him that at present approximately 100 staff are engaged wholly on those aspects within the department's environmental services. That represents a significant coverage and would, I suspect, match and probably better that in other areas of the UK. Those people do a very good job, as people living in and visiting the Province can see. Having answered those questions, I commend the order to the House.

On Question, Motion agreed to.