National Identity Card Proposal (Hansard, 8 March 1995)

§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Blatch)
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has announced his intention to publish a Green Paper in the spring which will set out the possible options for a national identity card scheme and invite views upon them.

§ Lord Wyatt of Weeford
My Lords, as the Home Office has no idea whatever how many illegal immigrants there are, is it not very urgent for it to find out rapidly by using an electronically-based system of identity cards which can be instantly verified and which cannot be forged?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the whole purpose of having a Green Paper and exploring all the options—which will range from a compulsory scheme to a number and range of voluntary schemes—is to have just that sort of debate to discuss the possible benefits. One will possibly be to prevent crime; another may well be to give security to those people who have bona fide residence in the country and to help sort out those who do not.

Baroness Sharpies
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether the police now support a compulsory scheme?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, in advance of the debate, we know the view of the Association of Chief Police Officers: it supports a voluntary scheme. Whether or not that will be confirmed as a result of the consultation process we do not know. At this stage it certainly supports a voluntary scheme.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will agree that the introduction of at least a voluntary ID card scheme is inevitable. The vast majority of our people are now accustomed to carrying some form of ID card. First, is the Department of Transport going ahead with its plans to introduce a photo-ID card for all motorists by July 1996? Secondly, in view of the fact that investigations are taking place within departments in respect of the ID card, can the Minister give an indication as to the likely outcome and what form the consultation will take before it is introduced?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, on the noble Lord's first point, we know that there is a great deal of support for an 269 identity card scheme. What we do not know is the nature of that support. There is a great debate about what form it should take. On a recent survey, 75 per cent. of people responded positively that they would support an ID scheme.
On the second point, it is true that plans are at the developmental stage to introduce a travel card. That is to conform with a European directive that there should be a common travel document throughout the European Community. Work is in hand to that end. A possible benefits card is also being developed at the moment. The travel card is due to be introduced in 1996. I cannot be precise about any further consultation on that. We are conforming to the law so far as the driving licence card is concerned.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, will my noble friend, in the course of her consultations, bear in mind that most of us already have a passport, a driving licence, two or three credit cards, a sort of halter that we put round our necks to prove that we are Members of the House of Lords and dozens of other pèces d'identité? Does she agree that the introduction of still further compulsory articles made of plastic will not necessarily serve any useful purpose?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, my noble and learned friend is absolutely right. I think that that is what lies behind the popular view that this is not a threat. I have to say to my noble and learned friend that other people take a different view; namely, that somehow or other it is an infringement of liberties. My noble and learned friend makes an important point: we all carry numbers of identification documents on our person every day. Of the 15 European countries, 10 have schemes, of which six are compulsory and four are non-compulsory. Five European Union countries, including the United Kingdom, do not have such a scheme at present but are contemplating one.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, will the Minister agree that, whatever may be the technical merits of identity cards, public confidence in the ability of this Government to introduce them fairly and to maintain confidentiality will be reduced by the proposed privatisation of the police national computer? Will she give an undertaking that, if such cards are to be introduced by the Government, they will not subsequently be privatised?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I will give no such guarantee in advance of the consultation exercise. I do not believe that there is a read-across. All aspects of introducing a card will be taken into account in the Green Paper. For the purposes of this debate, it will be a very green paper, because particular options will not be preferred by the Government in advance of the document. Perhaps I may correct what I said in an earlier reply. I referred to "travel document" when I meant to say driving licence.

§ Lord Wyatt of Weeford
My Lords, does the Minister realise that, despite what her noble and learned friend Lord Hailsham (who was Hogg) said, not many illegal immigrants will have either a plastic card to get into this House or a driving licence? Is not the whole point that we 270 ought not to be so old-fashioned? Should we not use modern means of identification? If we have an electronically-based card which we can all carry around, there would be no need to have anything else. The card can be used for money and almost everything. It is instantly verifiable. One will never be able to catch all illegal immigrants or stop people burgling and breaking into houses. So why do we not wake up and join the modern age?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, all those very colourful points made by my noble friend will be part of the consultation exercise. Perhaps I may also make a very important point. The noble Lord mentioned illegal immigrants several times in his remarks. Some identity card options might just help the prevention or detection of illegal immigrant offenders. But such a control would be in addition to existing controls. There is no intention whatever that identity cards should replace our current system of primarily ensuring the security of our frontiers.