HL Deb 06 March 1995 vol 562 cc9-11

3.1 p.m.

Lord Clinton-Davis asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they have any plans to introduce legislation to require the main United Kingdom airport terminals and larger British passenger aircraft to carry defibrillators, and whether they intend to raise this issue at European Union level.

Baroness Miller of Hendon

My Lords, the Government have no such plans or intentions.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that in Australia it is a requirement that all 53 international 747 and 767 aircraft and the main terminals should be provided with defibrillator equipment? Is she further aware that the equipment has been used about 50 times; of which 29 times were for cardiac arrests—I6 times on aircraft and 13 at air terminals? Is there not a strong case for investigating the applicability of that on a wider scale, not confining it to the United Kingdom but taking it to the European Union?

Baroness Miller of Hendon

My Lords, the view of Qantas and Virgin is not shared by the Civil Aviation Authority, British Airways or, so far as we know, other airlines around the world. The Civil Aviation Authority, which is the Government's independent expert, has already considered the matter and believes that it is of little benefit. The use of defibrillators is not appropriate in every heart attack situation. If a patient is sick enough to need a defibrillator, he also needs immediate access to an intensive care unit, drips, medication and so on. While access to such equipment at airports might be thought appropriate, airports are no different from other public places such as sports grounds, leisure facilities, railway stations and ferry ports. In addition, like all other public places, airports have access to emergency services.

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

My Lords, can my noble friend lighten my darkness and explain to the House what is a defibrillator and why it should be thought necessary in the way the Question suggests?

Baroness Miller of Hendon

My Lords, I thought that someone might ask that question, but I was not sure whether it would be my noble and learned friend. A defibrillator is a device which applies external electrical stimulation to the heart for the purpose of restoring it to its normal rhythm. Defibrillators are regarded as medical treatment rather than first aid.?

Lord Rix

My Lords, is the Minister aware that at least one person in your Lordships' House—that is, myself—has received the benefit of the use of a defibrillator on four occasions? However, it has been under strict medical supervision. Does the Minister agree that defibrillators can only be used under such supervision and that they cannot be used by air crews without special training?

Baroness Miller of Hendon

My Lords, it is true that in certain instances in order to use a defibrillator the crew would need to have special training. That is absolutely right. Dr. Chamberlain, the consultant cardiologist at the Royal Sussex County Hospital, has made a study of the use of defibrillators in public places. He has said that the essential requirement, after the use of a defibrillator, is to get the patient to a coronary care unit within 15 to 30 minutes. That cannot be met with an aircraft in flight or even with an aircraft taxiing on the ground with its doors shut. So I believe that the noble Lord is correct.

Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe

My Lords, can the Government give an estimate of the cost of installing the defibrillators mentioned in the Question?

Baroness Miller of Hendon

Yes my Lords, I can. A defibrillator on its own costs £5,000. With its battery and an extra battery, which is an essential part, the cost would amount to about £6,500.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, the noble Baroness said that defibrillators were likely to be of little benefit to passengers. However, they were apparently of some benefit to the 29 people who received treatment on Australian aircraft or at terminals to the extent that their lives were saved. Is the Minister aware that all 370 flight service directors on Qantas aircraft are extensively trained in the use of the equipment? All I ask the Minister is that the issue should be further examined. Consultation with Qantas is clearly desirable. This is not a matter where the doors should be shut on the use of the equipment.

Baroness Miller of Hendon

My Lords, if I did not make it clear then perhaps I ought to now. The matter is constantly kept under review and the Civil Aviation Authority has considered it on several occasions. The authority believes that the benefit that would be gained would be arguable. In addition, with the Australian experience all the evidence is that it was because the airports were so close to hospitals and the ambulance and emergency services that them was that success. As noble Lords appreciate, I am not a doctor, but we believe many of those people would have been saved in any event by ordinary cardio-pulmonary resuscitation (CPR).