BBC Educational Programmes (Hansard, 3 July 1995)

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I understand that the BBC has no plans to reduce its output of educational programming. The BBC's own publication, People and Programmes, identified educational programming as an important area which the BBC aimed to develop and strengthen over the next few years. I believe that in this area, as in many others, the UK is fortunate to have the best quality broadcasting services in the world.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I certainly support the BBC in its educational service. However, the Minister did not give us much information in that Answer. Can she say whether or not the policy has changed? I understood that it had. For instance, there is greater regionalisation. Can the Minister confirm that? Can the Minister say too whether or not there are more repeats of programmes than before? Also, can she say how many staff have already left and whether more staff are leaving, as is rumoured?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, dealing with the last point first, staff will be reduced by 40 from a total of 200 and future staffing levels are a matter for the BBC. It has developed a new educational strategy which identifies and aims to meet the educational needs of adults and children learning at home, at work, at school and in colleges. It will broaden the base of the BBC's output and involve the introduction of new services for further education colleges and children of pre-school age, and the Government intend that the new BBC Royal Charter will identify education as one of the BBC's continuing priorities.

§ Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the BBC World Service is not cutting down on its educational programmes? As technically there is freedom to broadcast to eastern and central Europe, the educational programmes have actually increased. There is more teaching of the English language and support for the Marshall Plan for the Mind of £1.5 million from the know-how fund. Will the Minister ensure that that continues?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the Government and the BBC are strongly committed to the future of the World Service. The World Service will continue to contain a broad range of high quality educational programming, including those teaching the use of the English language.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, how much do the Department of Education or institutions of higher education pay the BBC for the broadcasting services it provides for them?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the BBC pays, not the institutions, except in the case of the Open University. The production costs for the programmes agreed between the BBC and the Open University are met by the Open University.

§ Baroness Hilton of Eggardon
My Lords, can the Minister confirm whether it is part of the new strategy that the Esther Rantzen programme is funded from the educational programming budget?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the noble Baroness will be well aware that education can take many forms. The BBC recognises that reaching people who have not made the most of the formal education system can be difficult. They can be put off by programmes which are labelled "educational". The BBC is looking for ways of providing educational material through mainstream programmes. The Esther Rantzen show is one example and receives a contribution from the education budget to reflect the educational element.

§ Baroness Park of Monmouth
My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the expected job losses in London may be compensated for by job increases in the regions as a result of the new strategy of moving new programmes to the regions?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, that is one way of looking at the situation. In general, the BBC is keen to find ways of redeploying staff whose jobs disappear. That may include relocation. The extent to which that may be possible is a matter for the BBC and the individuals involved.

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, there seems to be a severe difference of opinion between the BBC management, which argues strongly that it is maintaining if not increasing its educational output, and the staff, who see cuts and an increase in repeats. We do not expect the Minister to resolve that problem on the spot, but does she agree that educational broadcasting is one of the main reasons why the BBC holds its privileged position of being in receipt of licence fee money? It would be surprising and certainly imprudent were the BBC ever to contemplate cutting expenditure on educational broadcasting.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord, Lord Donoughue, received the BBC's educational factsheet, which should have set his mind at rest. I am sure the noble Baroness, Lady David, received it. The BBC recently announced a major increase in investment in programme commissions from outside London. That will not lead to reductions in educational output.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, can my noble friend arrange with the BBC for the placement in the Library of the document called, BBC Education Programmes—The Facts, which challenges the whole of the factual basis upon which the original Question was based?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. I have just referred to that document, which was circulated to interested Peers. If those Peers who are interested but did not receive the document 938 wish to contact me, I shall ensure that they receive individual copies. I shall also ensure that a copy is placed in the Library.

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, perhaps I may point out that we all received the factsheet, which was interesting and impressive. But other factsheets are often circulated which contain different facts based on different assumptions.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, having received that factsheet, I am surprised that the Question was pursued.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, perhaps I may ask the Minister something which has not been mentioned regarding the Open University. Is the noble Baroness aware that the Open University organisation is anxious about the new plans for the broadcasting of its programmes? Everybody recognises that it has been brilliant in the past, but it is worried that many programmes in the future will be delivered at night. That will mean that a good many likely students will miss them. There is a great capacity to excite in the BBC broadcast programmes. People who happen to catch those are stimulated and send in inquiries. The Open University is worried that those people, who make up a large percentage of their students, will miss such programmes if the night-time plans increase.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the number of hours of Open University programmes will not he cut. With regard to night programmes, the Government favour any measures which increase the amount of educational programming which it is possible to deliver. The programmes are based on schools, most of which have access to video recorders. Broadcasting overnight allows far more material to he made available to schools. However, there may still be a need to provide programmes during normal school hours and it is for the BBC to determine where to strike the balance.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, there are many more students in higher education in the Open University than in any other establishment.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I said that there would be no cuts.