HL Deb 31 January 1995 vol 560 cc1328-9

2.47 p.m.

Lord Renton

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What steps they will take to ensure that the service currently provided by Motorail will continue to be provided after privatisation of the rail network.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Viscount Goschen)

My Lords, the franchising director has announced that he will not be requiring a future franchise operator to provide the Motorail service through the passenger service requirement. However, franchisees will be free to use their commercial judgment on whether to operate the Motorail service in addition to the PSR.

Lord Renton

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that somewhat disappointing reply. Is he aware that the Motorail service has proved to be a great advantage to many people, and has the further advantage that it keeps cars off the road over long distances? Will he point that out to the franchising director?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that the service has provided a valuable facility to many people, but it is extremely expensive to operate. It is used to carry very few vehicles.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, does the Minister recall undertaking after undertaking given by Ministers during the passage of the Railways Bill that there would be full consultation whenever controversial issues of this kind arose? Is he aware that there has been no consultation with the Central Rail Users Consultative Committee—a matter of complaint registered by Major-General Lennox Napier? Is he aware that there has been no consultation with the tourist industry which is bound to be vitally affected by these decisions? What would be the use of consultation now that the franchising director has made up his mind and pre-empted any alternatives?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, the franchising director has taken fully into account the factors mentioned by the noble Lord. No final decisions on ScotRail's PSR have yet been made. There will be formal consultations with the rail users consultative committees, the bodies set up under the Railways Act 1993. Consultations in respect of ScotRail's PSR will be held later this year.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, why was there no consultation before the franchising director made those two critically important decisions?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, in order to end speculation about the service the franchising director made an earlier announcement. It is clear that the service is extremely expensive to operate, uses specialised machinery that is not used elsewhere and the benefit is limited to the small number of people who use the service.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that from the point of view of taking cars off the road Motorail is almost wholly irrelevant? The total capacity of Motorail is approximately 17,500 cars per year whereas on the busiest stretch of the M.1 to Scotland the total daily traffic is approximately 120,000 cars.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, my noble friend described the situation perfectly. Motorail represents a valuable service to the few people who use it. However, in context with the number of cars travelling to and from Scotland it is insignificant.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the Minister aware that his answers to the supplementary questions that have been asked from all parts of the House indicate that the privatisation programme is a lot of nonsense and that most members of the public disagree with it? It is only the Government's dogma which persists in going through the formalities of getting the Bill through the House. Why do they not ditch the whole idea?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I do not agree with a word that the noble Lord said. Franchising will bring considerable benefits and economies to consumers and will involve the use of private finance. We firmly believe that the franchising business will be a great success. Similar remarks were made by other noble Lords in advance of privatisations which have proved to he great successes.

Lord Renton

My Lords, is the Minister aware that when voting for privatisation I did so enthusiastically and on the assumption that what he has called "a valuable service" will be retained?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, the service caters for few people and costs a great deal of money. The franchising director is under an obligation to spend the limited amount of subsidy that is at his disposal on the services which are most necessary.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, if and when the Government's programme for rail privatisation reaches fruition will enough trains be left running to keep the train spotters occupied?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, yes.