HL Deb 16 January 1995 vol 560 cc407-9

3.4 p.m.

Baroness Castle of Blackburnasked Her Majesty's Government:

What is the current ratio of fully qualified nurses to nursing auxiliaries in the South Buckinghamshire NHS Trust area; how this compares with the ratio in the hospitals concerned in each of the previous five years; how much training the nursing auxiliaries currently receive before being allowed to work on patients in the wards; and what rate of pay they receive for how many hours per day.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Baroness Cumberlege)

My Lords, the ratio of qualified to unqualified nursing and midwifery staff in South Buckinghamshire NHS Trust as at August 1994 is 2.4 to 1. Figures for the ratios of qualified nurses to auxiliaries in the trust for each of the past five years are not available, as the trust has been in existence for only just over one year.

The trust provides a five-day training course for nursing auxiliaries which is run by the College of Nursing and Midwifery. New starters either begin with formal training or are closely supervised and trained on the job until the formal course starts. Nursing auxiliaries work 37.5 hours per week and the current salary ranges from £6,690 to £9,875 per annum.

Baroness Castle of Blackburn

Is it not a fact that the number of nursing auxiliaries employed by the South Buckinghamshire trust has been increasing? It is now, as a proportion of the nursing workforce, 23 per cent. compared with 18 per cent. in 1987, five years ago. Is it not also a fact that those auxiliaries receive no preliminary training at all before going into employment? According to the chief executive, they receive five days' training in service, as soon as possible. Is it not also a fact that in its annual report the trust boasts of its increased performance activity, the increased number of patients it is handling, without any reference to or prospect of the increase in qualified staff that ought to be employed to carry that workload?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, the number of nurses in that trust has increased, there are 150 more nurses than seven years ago. Auxiliary nurses also have a very important part to play in any ward in any hospital. They receive training—perhaps not immediately when they start, but they get on-the-job training. Then, as I explained, they attend a training course run by the College of Nursing and Midwifery.

Baroness Gardner of Parkes

My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether this Question is comparing like with like and whether the new nurse training system under Project 2000 makes a difference to the situation?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, my noble friend is correct to bring that to the attention of your Lordships' House. The new Project 2000 courses are far more sophisticated, they equip nurses better to do the job. The nurses are there on a bursary and are full-time students. I believe that never before have we had more nurses, better qualified and better paid.

Baroness Jay of Paddington

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the points raised by my noble friend about the local situation in South Buckinghamshire are causing anxiety to nursing organisations across the whole country? They are particularly alarmed about the arrangements for local pay. Can the Minister give an assurance that the Government will abide by the national review body on pay, which I believe will report shortly? Will the Government ensure that all nurses with all qualifications at all levels are given a fair pay award this year?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, I find it interesting that Peers on the opposite Benches should bring forward these issues. It was the Labour Party that cut nurses' pay and never this Government. This Government have always honoured the pay review body awards and we await its results. I have no doubt that the noble Baroness will be pleased.

Baroness Jay of Paddington

My Lords, may I therefore be assured that the nursing pay review board proposal will be abided by this year?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, we will wait to see the results.

Baroness Castle of Blackburn

Can we also have an assurance that the Government will in future fund any pay increase to which they agree? They failed to do so with the last pay increase, thus increasing the pressure to reduce the quality of service by reducing the number of qualified staff and not filling vacancies. Is it not time we had another Halsbury Report such as the Labour Government introduced?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, I find this intriguing. Reading the noble Baroness's memoirs, I recollect that there was a Cabinet meeting during which John Silkin sent her a note. It read: All things bright and beautiful, All projects great and small, All things wise and wonderful The Chancellor cuts them all. He cuts the old age pension Although he cuts by stealth, And when he looks for savings, He cuts the National Health.

Lord Graham of Edmonton

There is no answer to that!