Community Charge Arrears (Hansard, 22 February 1995)

§ The Lord Chancellor (Lord Mackay of Clashfern)
My Lords, where a local authority has sought unsuccessfully to enforce payment of the community charge, it may apply to a magistrates' court to commit the defaulter to prison. If the magistrates are satisfied that non-payment is due to wilful refusal or culpable neglect, under the Community Charge Enforcement Regulations 1989 they have the following alternatives: they may remit all or part of the sum due; they may fix a term of imprisonment but postpone the issue of a committal warrant upon such terms as they see just; or, if they think fit, they may commit the defaulter to prison for not more than three months. It would be constitutionally improper for me to seek to advise the courts on the appropriate decision to take in particular cases.

§ Baroness Williams of Crosby
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor for that reply and also for his very great kindness in writing to me with regard to the Question. Perhaps I may draw to his attention some of the cases which currently come before the courts. For example, is he aware that the Leigh magistrates committed a woman to prison on 25th January? She has six children all under the age of 18. One of them is hydrocephalic and another has a severe heart condition. They were left in charge of the children because the woman was given only 24 hours to arrange other cover.
Is the noble and learned Lord aware that the European Commission of Human Rights found that the refusal to grant legal aid was contrary to Article 6 of the convention? I hasten to tell the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, that that has nothing whatever to do with the European Union. Finally, I draw to the noble and learned Lord's attention the suggestion of the Audit Commission that for many councils the cost of recovering outstanding debt is greater than the amount which is recovered.

§ 'The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, the noble Baroness has drawn my attention to the case to which she 1120 referred. That is my only knowledge of it. I am aware of the decision of the European Commission of Human Rights and in case it is necessary I confirm that that is an institution of the Council of Europe and not part of the institutions of the European Union. With regard to the third point, the Magistrates' Association intends to issue advice to magistrates in the near future. That is an option which it has.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, will my noble and learned friend reassure me on one point? Although the House will be deeply appreciative of the fact that the noble and learned Lord is the appropriate Minister to answer on behalf of the Government, does not the form of the Question suggest that it is the business of the Government, to whom it is addressed, to interfere with the independence of the judiciary, however humble?

§ Lord Simon of Glaisdale
Hear, hear!

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I am sure that in asking the Question the noble Baroness does not seek to interfere with the independence of the judiciary from its highest level to the magistrates' courts. On the other hand, it is a matter of concern and I therefore sought to answer as fully as possible.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, is it not the case that the Lord Chancellor is able to advise magistrates? If so, will he advise them that it would be foolish to imprison women who have dependent children and who cannot pay what was a ridiculous charge imposed by the Government who have since admitted that it was a mistake in the first place?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, it is right that from time to time my predecessors and I have expressed views on matters of a general character but it would not be right—and I do not believe that any of my predecessors did it either—to offer a view about how a particular case should be disposed of. Some may think that is what the noble Baroness was seeking in relation to the particular instance to which she referred. The community charge was levied under the law and I have sought to set out what are the relevant provisions as regards its enforcement.