Schools: Performance Standards (Hansard, 14 February 1995)

Lord Lucas
My Lords, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Schools has confirmed that the national curriculum and its assessment are already helping to improve standards in schools. The revised national curriculum will give added impetus to that improvement, notably by putting more emphasis on the basics of English and maths.

§ Lord Quirk
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for the degree of cautious encouragement that he has felt able to offer. But, in view of the serious concerns recently expressed by Her Majesty's Chief Inspector, Mr. Woodhead, does he not agree that efforts must be made to offset the influence of a minority of teachers on the work of the vast majority, who are striving to enhance their pupils' career prospects? Furthermore, given the stimulus to professional competition through testing and performance tables, and given too that the 14 year-olds in this country are believed to be worse at reading, writing and sums than the 14 year-olds in several neighbouring countries, would he not also 569 agree that our teachers might usefully be encouraged to emulate best practice abroad, through the regular scrutiny of soundly based international comparisons?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I can answer both those questions. With regard to the noble Lord's first question, that is one of the principal reasons why we set up the Teacher Training Agency, which is to give a great deal of added emphasis to the initial training of teachers and their continuing education. That, if not the most important factor, is certainly one of the most important factors in improving our children's education. With regard to international comparisons, yes, we take them seriously. They are difficult to make and there are always many extraneous factors to be considered, but they provide a very valuable benchmark. I can give some comfort to the noble Lord. The best surveys indicate that we are not in a disastrous position. We are somewhere in the middle of the league and we should like to do a great deal better. We shall continue to participate in the surveys and to learn from them.

§ Baroness Cox
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the revised and streamlined national curriculum has been widely and warmly welcomed? Does he also agree that research has shown that there is a great need to look at teaching methods as such, particularly in primary schools and particularly with regard to literacy, where a growing number of seven year-olds are unable to read? Will he accept that that must surely be a priority area, if the objectives of the national curriculum are to be achieved?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I agree entirely with what my noble friend said.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, how can the Government hope to get a rapidly improving performance in schools, when they have reduced morale in the whole education service to the lowest level ever known by their ill-considered reforms over the past few years?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I am delighted to discover that there is still someone on the opposite Benches who has not accepted all our education reforms. From what I read in the paper, I understand that most noble Lords opposite—certainly Members in another place—had decided that what we had done over the past 16 years was a good thing. At least the noble Lord's view is consistent with those that he held when he was in office.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House whether sport, and particularly team sport, is now built into the curriculum? We have heard a good deal of talk about it; but can he confirm that that has in fact taken place?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, sport certainly plays an important part in the work of schools. We put a lot of emphasis on encouraging schools to improve their team sports. The noble Lord will realise that, 570 particularly for some inner city schools, there are considerable difficulties in expanding the provision that they have at the moment.

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, will the noble Lord confirm that it is almost impossible to find a parent who believes that standards will be raised in primary schools if class sizes rise? Will he also confirm that the reduction in the number of teachers will damage the morale of the teaching force as a result of the Government's policy?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, as the noble Baroness realises, the whole question of class sizes is very interesting. All the research that is available to us indicates that changes in class size, either up or down around the levels that they are at the moment, make very little difference to the quality of education. The principal determinants of the quality of education are the quality of teaching, the teaching methods and the spirit of the school.

§ Lord Morris of Castle Morris
My Lords, if things are every bit as good as the noble Lord would have us believe, why, all over the country, are school governors threatening to resign in such significant numbers?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I am delighted that the noble Lord raised that question. As a result of all our reforms, school governors are taking a very active and personal interest in the health of their schools. We are delighted that that is the case. It is a development which the party opposite would never have allowed had they been in power.

§ Lord Morris of Castle Morris
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that answer. Perhaps I may now ask him to answer the question that I put. Why are school governors threatening to resign in such significant numbers?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I do not believe that they are threatening to resign in significant numbers. Certainly, some are threatening to resign. They are concerned about the level of the funding settlement, as expressed to them by their local authorities. It has been a tough spending round, but local authorities have a great deal of flexibility to ameliorate the general level of funding. One tough year after 15 good years is not so hard to take.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, is the Minister familiar with the latest figures which indicate that a higher number of children left school last year without any qualifications? If so, is he satisfied that the Government's policy will now help children across the board? I refer to those who are not gaining qualifications as well as the more gifted children.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I am familiar with that report. Of course, the Government are not satisfied that that should be the situation. As the noble Baroness will be aware, when the results for the first tests for 14 year-olds were published recently, they showed that around 20 to 25 per cent. of the school population were producing results that were worse 571 than we hoped. That is the part of the school population on which we shall be exerting our greatest efforts.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, did I misunderstand the Minister? Did he say that variations in class sizes did not affect educational performance? Is that his department's view? Before he answers, I should perhaps point out that I have only just looked at the latest research which appears to show precisely the opposite—that is, that lowering class sizes is highly advantageous. That is evidenced also by the fact that those parents whose children go to fee-paying schools are extremely keen on small class sizes. If it makes no difference, why are they wasting their money?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, research shows that when class sizes are reduced to around 15, the effect begins to be noticed. Class reductions to that level, involving double the expenditure compared with present levels, would produce benefits. But that additional expenditure can be much better spent in producing advantages in other ways.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, the Minister said that local authorities have a great deal of flexibility. He admitted that the Government were engaged in a strong spending round. However, does he agree that many local authorities and local communities want to spend more money on education? In those circumstances, and bearing in mind that the Government believe that people should have as much freedom as possible, will he remove the capping levels from local authorities?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I would not dream of trespassing on the territory of my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

§ Lord Quirk
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that to urge funding as the basic cause of our educational ills is in fact to delay addressing their real underlying cause?

Lord Lucas
Yes, my Lords.