Slaughterhouses (Hansard, 13 December 1995)

Lord Lucas
My Lords, my noble friend has managed to ask three Questions in one and the Answers to them are yes, no and yes. Yes, the regulations concerning slaughterhouses are complex and difficult to apply, but no, it is not in our power unilaterally to review the EC directive on which our regulations are based. We must also bear in mind that we are coming to the end of a period of considerable change and the industry is likely to welcome a period of stability. However, we are looking at our implementation of the directive to ensure that no unnecessary burdens are imposed. Lastly, yes; my honourable friend the Parliamentary Secretary for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is looking at each outstanding derogated slaughterhouse to ensure that we are being as helpful as possible within the constraints of the legislation.

§ Lord Buxton of Alsa
My Lords, I thank my noble friend very much for his largely satisfactory and admirable reply. In fact, it has almost restored my "feel-good factor". I am sure that your Lordships are anxious to get on to the next Question, but will my noble friend convey to the Minister, Angela Browning, very sincere appreciation and congratulations on what has happened? It is nearly a year since we started to be concerned about the case of Mr. Law and his family slaughterhouse business which has gone on for several generations. A very serious injustice has been averted through her intervention and through her taking full charge of these decisions. Therefore, we would like my noble friend to kindly pass that on.
May I ask a further question? If we are now to ensure that no further injustices occur, can the arrangement whereby the Minister takes full charge be built into 1273 future provisions so that when Angela Browning moves elsewhere and higher, as I am sure that she will, we need have no further worries?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I shall draw my noble friend's very kind remarks to the attention of my honourable friend who is, indeed, a most effective Minister. She, I, and all the officials involved, share the delight at the resolution of Mr. Law's problems and I hope that we may be able to deal with the other outstanding derogations with similar good effect.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House how many slaughterhouses in England, Scotland and Wales are regarded by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food as inefficient or unsatisfactory?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I do not believe that we know of any such slaughterhouses. Some have not yet met the conditions, but on the other hand the time limit in which they have to do so has not yet expired.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that complex legislation and regulations open the door to tiresome officials being able to bully people and deprive them of their livelihoods? I have no doubt that my noble friend will have read the admirable judgment of the sheriff concerning Mr. Errington, who was so gravely bullied by Clydesdale District Council.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I have not yet had the opportunity to read the judgment but I am looking forward to doing so. Generally, I agree entirely with what my noble friend said and believe that if we were to rewrite the directives now both ourselves and the European Commission would proceed in a different spirit.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, despite the rather complacent Answer from the Minister, does he agree that it is extraordinary that after all the confusion and the increased costs and pressure on abattoirs resulting from the regulations, the recent inspection of abattoirs by the State Veterinary Service found that nearly half of those inspected were in breach of the rules governing the removal of specified offals as a control against the possible spread of BSE? Does not that confirm the worst fears of those of us who felt that the new regulations would not produce the increase in food safety that we were promised?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I take a rather different view. Yes, I share the noble Lord's disappointment at the performance of slaughterhouses as regards the removal of spinal cord. That is something that we are taking extremely seriously. However, our belief is that the introduction of the Meat Hygiene Service and the regulations has resulted in a great increase in quality and a great decrease in costs compared with previous inspection results. If we are seeing more difficulties in slaughterhouses, I believe that it is simply because we are seeing more rather than because more are occurring.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, can the Minister say whether any progress has been made recently in the provision of mobile abattoirs? He will no doubt recall 1274 that we had some discussions on that about a year ago. Mobile abattoirs would ensure that animals could be slaughtered as near as possible to the places where they had been reared. Is that progressing?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I am afraid that I know nothing about that, but I shall write to the noble Baroness when I have some information.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, although I am delighted that the Minister has saved one family business, can he tell the House how many have been closed down in addition to the three that I can tell him about in my own area? Can he also say how much the health of the nation has improved because of his officials' actions?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, since 1975 about 1,000 slaughterhouses have closed. I cannot give the noble Lord any answer about how the health of the nation has improved, but it seems to be in good shape, which is what we are all aiming at.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the incidence of food poisoning has increased in the past two years?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, no, I was not aware of that, but I am sure that very little of it is attributable to problems in abattoirs.