§ The Earl of Buchan asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they consider that there are sufficient slaughterhouses in the south of England available for the slaughter of sheep.
Lord LucasMy Lords, yes. There are 80 slaughterhouses licensed to handle sheep which are located south of a line drawn from the Bristol Channel to Clacton-on-Sea.
The Earl of BuchanMy Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer—up to a point. What further financial or other encouragement can the Minister offer to owners such as myself of small flocks of rare breed sheep? I should like to declare an interest—it being both right and fashionable, an interesting political coincidence in itself—as a member of the Rare Breeds Survival Trust Ltd. What encouragement can be offered to those who wish to spread the good word about the excellent quality of their meat in contrast to that pink plastic product which is sold in supermarkets and masquerades as lamb?
Lord LucasMy Lords, I find myself in total agreement with the sentiments expressed by the noble Earl. I go to some lengths to make sure that I buy my lamb from a good butcher who knows where to obtain the best lamb and slaughters it himself. I hope that other people will be able to do the same. It is difficult for a supermarket which has to sell a large volume of a product of consistent quality to rely on a rare breed which may be available in small numbers and only occasionally. Those who appreciate such factors know where to obtain the product. I hope that they will follow my example and go to their local butcher.
§ Lord CarterMy Lords, will the noble Lord agree that this is not the best place to talk about the Rare Breeds Survival Trust? Does he accept that there is a case in both social and animal welfare terms for maintaining an appropriate number of small slaughterhouses in rural areas provided that proper standards are maintained? Would this not be a suitable case for a sensible European subsidy?
Lord LucasMy Lords, there is a good number of slaughterhouses. Out of 490 slaughterhouses in Britain, 206 have what we define as a low throughput. They seem to survive pretty well at present. We do not see any need for additional subsidy.
§ Lord Pearson of RannochMy Lords, can my noble friend state how many slaughterhouses have closed in 964 the United Kingdom since 1990 largely as a result of zealous enforcement of European legislation? Can he say how many jobs have been lost as a result?
Lord LucasMy Lords, I am afraid that I cannot answer either question except to say this: not as many as will be. There is still 40 per cent. over-capacity in slaughterhouses. That will inevitably result in further closures. There is no point in keeping open slaughterhouses that are not required.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that if he crosses Offa's Dyke, he will find the best slaughterhouses in this country and the best lamb in the world?
§ Lord GisboroughMy Lords, if there are enough slaughterhouses in the country, will the Minister do his best to continue to ensure that sheep are exported dead rather than alive to avoid the unfortunate export trade involving cruelty to sheep?
Lord LucasMy Lords, yes. We are doing as much as we can to encourage the trade in dead rather than live meat. We believe that there is much to be gained in terms of value-added in this country as well as in the comfort of the animals concerned.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, is the Minister aware that hundreds of slaughterhouses have been closed since 1990? Who decides whether a slaughterhouse should be closed? Is it the Department of Health, the people who enforce health standards, or by demand? If it is by demand, can the Minister state why demand has dropped suddenly since 1990?
Lord LucasMy Lords, I do not believe that it is a question of increased demand. It is mostly a question of expansion by the more efficient slaughterhouses and the less efficient finding it harder to survive.