St. Pancras Chambers (Hansard, 25 April 1995)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Viscount Goschen)
My Lords, the Government intend that St. Pancras Chambers should pass to the bidder selected to develop the Channel Tunnel rail link. The presence of the adjacent rail link terminus will necessitate limited work to the chambers, but it will also enhance the opportunity to bring the chambers back into use.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, I wonder whether the Government have the full measure of the size of the problem as regards either the cost or who is likely to provide the money. Is my noble friend the Minister aware that this is a very genuine interrogatory—perhaps the most genuine that your Lordships have heard for many a long day? I certainly do not know the answer, and I suspect that neither does anyone else.

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, it is a big building which needs a great deal of work. However, what we are sure about is the fact that we need a firm, commercial incentive for the work to be done. We believe that linking it with the railway station, bearing in mind the great commercial development that will occur with the new terminus, will provide the right environment for the building to be preserved and developed, and for a long-term use to be found for it.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that the building is listed as Grade I? Cannot its future be considered by the Millennium Commission in view of its great importance?

§ Viscount Goschen
Indeed, my Lords; the noble Lord is right. The building in question is Grade I listed. We believe that what is required is for a promoter to come forward with a scheme that will take that factor fully into consideration and who will work with English Heritage. As regards the parts of the building which are not directly 788 connected with the operational requirements of the terminus, the normal listing and planning procedures will apply.

§ Lord Renfrew of Kaimsthorn
My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister share the widely held view that the true masterpiece of Sir George Gilbert Scott is the Albert Memorial? Will he confirm the very welcome news that, as I understand it, English Heritage and the Department of National Heritage have at last formulated a plan for the restoration of that remarkable edifice? Finally, can my noble friend tell us when that restoration will be complete?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, I believe that my noble friend's requests drift slightly wide of the Question on the Order Paper. However, I shall take note of my noble friend's remarks.

§ Lord Wyatt of Weeford
My Lords, by his answers regarding the future of St. Pancras, does the Minister mean that the Government intend to muck about with it in exactly the same way as a previous Conservative Government did with Euston, which was the first great railway station in the world, truncating it, removing Doric arches and altogether wrecking it?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, if we do not "muck about with it" it will fall down. The building is not in a good state of repair. Works have been carried out. We need to find a proper, long-term use for the building. We understand that it is of enormous architectural importance. However, we believe that those principles will be adhered to. There is a special heritage agreement for those parts of the station which are directly connected with the terminus. But for those parts which are not directly connected with the terminus, as I said, the normal listing and planning procedures will apply. We must find a proper, long-term use for the building; and that is what we fully intend to do.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, is it not the case that a principal part of the difficulty is that, for any occupational use of the building, the fire regulations require exceedingly expensive provision, a good deal of which would apply to the outside of the building? That means that any solution which will be aesthetically acceptable—and acceptable in safety terms—will be uncommercially expensive. Therefore, would that not be a reason for entertaining the earlier suggestion that a grant from the Millennium Fund might be appropriate?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, my noble friend is right. As with many old and listed buildings, the question of fire regulations is most important. One only needs to look to the fact that much of the building is not utilised at present to see that point illustrated. In view of the fact that the building is thoroughly intertwined with the railway station, we feel that passing the building to a promoter will provide the best opportunity for it to have a long-term future.

§ Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Peyton of Yeovil, for tabling the Question? I have passed the building and, although I have very little knowledge of it, having looked at some of the work that 789 gave rise to the necessity for today's Question, I am now quite fascinated by it. I understand that the building can now be visited. I hope that I shall have an opportunity to do so fairly soon. I understand that the roof has now been secured, largely due to the work of Sir Bob Reid, and that at least the building from the roof point of view is watertight.
However, can the Minister assure us that, if the passenger terminal is ultimately placed in that building, there would still be a fair bit of the building left? Further, will the Minister keep the House and the country informed as regards the future of the building and assure us that neither the new tenants nor the Government will rush into over-quick decisions concerning a building of such importance?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, I can assure the House that the building will be preserved and enhanced by the plans that we have for it. There is no question whatever of the building being degraded. I am very glad that the noble Lord intends to visit the station. If the noble Lord has any difficulties in that respect, I am sure that he will be in touch with me and I shall endeavour to make arrangements for him.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, will the Minister bear in mind the fact that the building is next door to the new British Library, whenever that may be completed? Further, will the noble Viscount also bear in mind that, so long as it remains a copyright library, the British Library will and must continue to grow? Have any exploratory discussions with library authorities taken place on that subject?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, I feel that the noble Earl's requests are totally wide of the Question on the Order Paper. I noticed that the British Library is next door to the railway station when I drove past the area this morning. If the noble Earl would care to table a Question on the issue of the British Library, either I or one of my noble friends will be pleased to answer it.

§ Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister consider including a museum in the station as, for example, there is in the Musée D'Orsay in Paris, which has been such an immense success or one similar to that at Lyons station?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, I shall consider very carefully my noble friend's suggestion.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware of how much satisfaction his answer will give—if I understood him correctly—that there is no danger of the building being degraded? Further, does my noble friend agree in his heart of hearts that the hope that some railway operator will arise from somewhere with so much money to spare that he is able to take on the cost of rejuvenating the building is something of a pipedream?

§ Viscount Goschen
No, my Lords; I do not agree with my noble friend save to say that I am pleased that he has taken note of my comments that the building will not be degraded. It must be the case that, rather than spending huge amounts of money on keeping the building standing when it is not occupied, it is right to try to find a proper, commercial solution to the problem. We firmly believe 790 that providing the proper commercial environment, together with the fact that the building is so closely linked with the railway terminus, means that our proposals will constitute the best future for the building.