HL Deb 20 April 1995 vol 563 cc577-8

3.25 p.m.

Earl Russell asked Her Majesty's Government:

What legal means of support are available to people refused benefit under the habitual residence rules pending the hearing of their appeals.

The Minister of State, Department of Social Security (Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish)

My Lords, interim payments of benefit may be made where a person is awaiting the outcome of an appeal, where it appears that there is, or may be, entitlement to that benefit. Payments are not, however, automatic. Decisions have to be made on a case-by-case basis, taking into account all the circumstances of the individual claim.

Earl Russell

My Lords, I congratulate Richmond House on reading the letters page in the Independent. How many payments have been made under the provision the Minister has quoted?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, I am afraid that I do not have that information. Information about refused or granted interim payments is kept at local level. It would be both complicated and expensive to collect that information centrally.

Baroness Faithfull

My Lords, what is the position with regard to the wives and children of such men?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, it is not just men, I have to say, when I look through the list of people who have been refused benefit because they are not habitually resident in the UK. If a family comes here and none of its members is an habitual resident, then it will not receive the benefit that we are discussing.

Earl Russell

My Lords, is the Minister aware that many of the people concerned are found, on appeal, to be habitually resident? Is he aware that many of them have nowhere else to go? Does the department know anything about what happens to them while they are deprived of money pending their appeal? If not, why not?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, I cannot agree that many have won on appeal, because the total number to date amounts to about 38,000 people. If people come to this country from the European Economic Area or from another pan of the world and do not pass the habitual residence test, the simple answer to the noble Earl's question is that they return whence they came.

Earl Russell

My Lords, is the Minister aware that many of these people are British nationals and have no home in any other country?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, something like 3,000 British citizens have failed the test, and 23,500 have passed it. The list of British nationals I have seen shows clearly that they are people who have close contacts with other countries. British nationality does not necessarily mean that they are habitually resident in this country. I do not see any reason—nor, I suspect, do any of my countrymen—why they should necessarily be able to come here and immediately claim benefit.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that one of the Government's principal purposes is to protect British taxpayers' money and not to allow it to be used by people who come here from abroad, claim habitual residence and then gain all the benefits to which this country's taxpayers have subscribed? Can we get across the message that we are not a soft touch?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. I very much hope that now we have come into line with, for example, other EEA states on such matters, people, certainly from the European Union, will not see us as a good place in which to indulge in a bit of benefit tourism. I hope that those British citizens whose habitual residences are abroad will, thanks to the publicity arising from the Government's new decision, realise that they must think twice before they leave their home countries to come here.