Grant-maintained Schools (Hansard, 4 April 1995)

Lord Lucas
My Lords, to date 1,200 schools in Great Britain have applied for grant-maintained or self-governing status. Of those, 1,070 are now self-governing and a further 42 have applications in the pipeline. Self-government benefits schools and the communities they serve. That is why the sector continues to grow and flourish.

§ Lord Geddes
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that encouraging reply, but can he tell the House whether, for those schools which have made the switch from local education authority to grant-maintained status, the numbers of pupils in what are now the grant-maintained schools have increased? Indeed, perhaps more relevant, can he say whether the numbers of teachers employed in such grant-maintained schools have increased?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, yes. While one cannot be too exact about the figures, it appears from our information that pupil numbers in grant-maintained schools are growing faster than average. The proportion of the schools' budgets spent on teachers is also rising and the number of teachers increases when the school goes grant maintained.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, while the Minister is expounding the success of opt-out schools, can he say whether the Government intend to help those schools which have already found themselves to be drastically short of funds, which may result in their having to lay off teachers? What does the Minister intend to do about that?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, as I said before, it has been a difficult year for funding in education, and grant-maintained schools are subject to the same restraints as other schools.

§ Lord Clark of Kempston
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, apart from the improvement in our educational system in relation to grant-maintained schools, the amount of taxpayers' money spent on education per pupil has increased substantially since 1979?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, yes. It has risen by around 50 per cent. It is a record of which we can he extremely proud.

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the pupil-teacher ratio in the education service as a whole is worsening as a result of the Government's failure to fund or allow full funding for all schools funded from the state sector, be they grant maintained or local authority run? Can he also confirm that those schools, particularly Church schools, 96 which are allocated capital funding for building repairs, are treated less favourably than the grant-maintained schools funded by the Government?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, this is in danger of becoming a long and complicated question, but I shall do my best to answer as much of it as I can in a reasonably short time. I would not agree with the noble Baroness's second point at all. Grant-maintained schools obtain all their capital funding from the Government. Other schools have many other sources available to them. It is difficult to make comparisons. We have always said that we will give grant-maintained schools the capital that they should have. Local authorities have many other ways of finding money to help their schools, other than by direct grants from the Government. With regard to the noble Baroness's first point, I really do not believe that that is the case.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the answer that he has just given to his noble friend Lord Clark of Kempston about the increase in spending per head omitted three points: first, the funding of teachers' salaries; secondly, it was based on the RPI and not on an increase in educational costs; and, thirdly, it omitted falling school rolls and therefore the fact that overheads have to have the costs shared between fewer pupils and that the amount of money available is therefore falling?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, I think that the answer I gave was quite clear. The amount of money we spend per pupil has risen by 50 per cent. in real terms. Yes, it is true that we have paid teachers better salaries than they were paid under the Labour Government. Indeed, teachers have done better than non-manual workers as a whole. Some of the increase in funding has gone to paying teachers better. I do not think that is a bad thing.

§ Baroness Seccombe
My Lords, has the Minister any details on the Oratory School, which has been chosen by the Leader of the Opposition in another place?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, it is a superb school. I congratulate the Leader of the Opposition on his choice.

§ Lord Morris of Castle Morris
My Lords, does the Minister recall that no fewer than 12 sections of the Education Act 1993, which took up so much of our time and the time of another place last year and the year before, provide for groups of schools to opt out together and for existing grant-maintained schools to join groups? Is he aware that the possibility of groups has since then spawned one 28-page glossy booklet, a 38-page technical paper and five statutory instruments covering 56 pages? Can he now tell the House how many grant-maintained schools have opted out into groups and what the promotion of this absurd possibility has cost so far?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, so far as I know—I stand to be corrected and I shall write to the noble Lord if I am wrong—no schools have taken advantage of this opportunity. Schools choose whether to take advantage of it. We are putting no pressure on them to do so. We 97 are pleased to have provided them with the opportunity. I do not have an answer with me to the noble Lord's second question. I shall write to him.