Coal: Consumer Safeguards (Hansard, 24 October 1994)

The Minister of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Earl Ferrers)
My Lords, we are working with the Chamber of Coal Traders to ensure that the appropriate consumer arrangements for a private sector coal industry are put in place.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the coal trade has been in private hands all along even under nationalisation and therefore nothing has changed so far as coal consumers are concerned? Is it not therefore essential, as a matter of urgency, that the three and a half million domestic coal consumers, many of whom are elderly, should be assured of the continuance of the safeguards that the Domestic Coal Consumers Council offered them, particularly in regard to safety in the use of coal appliances which, like all energy appliances, have conceivable risks attached to their use, especially as regards fumes? There are problems over quality and prices. Will the Government regard this as a matter of urgency? Many of us who participated in the debates on the coal Bill have misgivings about the Government wishing to dispose of the Domestic Coal Consumers Council in contrast to everything they have done in connection with all the other privatised utility enterprises where consumers have been protected by their councils.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, asks a whole host of different questions. I shall try to answer some of them. I quite agree that the coal trade has been in private hands ever since nationalisation. That is a fundamental point because British Coal is a mining company with a selling arm. Therefore we believe that the Domestic Coal Consumers Council is not quite as appropriate as it was when nationalisation first came about. I remind the noble Lord that 70 per cent. of homes were heated by coal as recently as 1960; now, only 7 per cent. are heated by coal. Therefore it has taken on a different feature in our national life.
The safety of appliances, about which the noble Lord is anxious, is covered by the provisions of the Consumer Protection Act 1987 and subject to the provisions of regulations implementing the general product safety directive which came into force on 3rd October. I remind the noble Lord that the consumer protection 400 legislation and the trade descriptions legislation are now greatly strengthened in comparison with the position when the organisation we are discussing was first set up.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, the Minister referred to the role of British Coal. Is it correct that the Government intend that only one buyer will be allowed to purchase British Coal, namely, a man named Richard Budge, and that Mr. Malcolm Edwards, the former commercial director of British Coal, in partnership with the UDM, will not be allowed to participate? Does the Minister understand that that will result in one person controlling the supply of coal to the domestic or any other market? Is that not a recipe for exploitation? What measures will the Government take to protect domestic customers if there is one purchaser at the end of the day because of government policy?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Dean of Beswick, has a remarkable facility of asking peripheral questions. He did it the other day, and has done it again today. The only common ground between the noble Lord's supplementary and the original Question is the word "coal". The noble Lord asks how this body is to be sold to private industry. There are five regional packages for sale. A person can bid for individual packages or the whole lot together.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, can the noble Earl say what percentage of consumers deserve protection if 7 per cent. do not? At what figure would they be considered to deserve protection?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Mackie of Benshie, has missed the point entirely. Of course consumers have to be protected. They are protected under the trade descriptions legislation and the consumer protection legislation.

§ Lord Morris of Castle Morris
My Lords, funding of the approved coal merchants scheme (ACMS), which is probably a key element in any future arrangements for the replacement of the DCCC—I hope that that keeps me well within the scope of the Question on the Order Paper—will unquestionably cease at the end of March 1995. As yet there seems to have been no commitment from the private sector to continue the ACMS scheme. Will the Government assume responsibility if that silence continues?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the position is perfectly clear. There is the ability to disband the Domestic Coal Consumers Council. A date and time have not yet been agreed. We are working with the coal associations to try to find alternative means of ensuring that what was done before continues in the private sector.

§ Lord Holme of Cheltenham
My Lords, if gas users have a Gas Consumers Council why should coal users not have the same treatment?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, because gas and coal are very different. Noble Lords opposite laugh. They may not realise that gas is delivered to the home by a very 401 different method to coal. The delivery of gas to the home, piped as it is, can cause explosions. On the whole, coal does not cause explosions.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I have been a domestic user of coal in a modest way for a number of years and up to now I have been completely unaware of the existence of the Domestic Coal Consumers Council? Can my noble friend say whether I have missed out on something?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I am bound to say that I admire the bravery of some noble Lords in displaying their ignorance! I think that on the whole the answer is no.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that many of us think that my noble friend Lord Bean of Deswick—Lord Dean of Beswick —from time to time raises questions which, however embarrassing to the Government, are of general interest to the House?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, that applies also to the noble Lord, Lord Druce of Bonington.