§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords, I beg leave to ask a question of which I have given Her Majesty's Government private notice. The question is as follows: 899 To ask Her Majesty's Government which units of the British services are being sent to Kuwait and what is their mission.
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, HMS "Cornwall" has arrived off the coast of Kuwait and will be joined shortly by HMS "Cardiff". Six additional Tornado GR1 aircraft and an additional VC10 tanker arrived in the Gulf on 1lth October, to reinforce the six Tornados and the tanker already there. The advance party of the lead element of the Spearhead battalion group arrived in Kuwait early on 12th October. The1 lead element, of 250 troops, will be in place by the end of this week. Preparations are continuing for the remainder of Spearhead battalion group to deploy. This would bring troop numbers up to about 1,000. Their mission is to reinforce security in the Gulf, in the light of the recent build-up of Iraqi forces close to the border with Kuwait.
§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for her reply. It is an important matter when British forces are sent into what may be a war situation. Can the noble Baroness confirm that the command structure for our forces in Kuwait will be the same as that in the Gulf war; in other words, will they be under NATO command with an American commander-in-chief? Further, will their mission also include participation in a pre-emptive strike against Iraqi forces if that is what is decided?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, the whole question of command control is being discussed in the Gulf. As the noble Lord will perhaps know, both Mr. Warren Christopher, the US Secretary of State, and my right honourable friend Mr. Douglas Hurd are in Kuwait today. So far as the action is concerned, that is something which we would not declare and certainly something that would not be in the best interests of creating peace in the Middle East so to declare.
§ Lord Thomson of MonifiethMy Lords, is the Minister aware that on these Benches we support the speedy military intervention that the Government have undertaken as the best form of deterrence against an unpredictable and irrational dictator? But is the Minister aware that it is deterrence on which we believe the international community should concentrate rather than rather dangerous thoughts of pre-emptive action? Would not perhaps the best course be to explore the possibility of the existing "no fly" zone becoming a "no troops" zone?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his support. Indeed the deployment was extremely speedy. Having been asked on Friday for assistance, the first response, HMS "Cornwall", arrived off Kuwait on Sunday morning. Our intention is to deter aggression by Iraq against Kuwait. I sincerely hope that this will succeed with this first attempt. I think a "no troops" zone would be simply marvellous; but to make that happen in this sort of territory, as the noble Lord will know, is not an easy matter.
§ Lord Harmar-NichollsMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that her measured words of a minute or 900 two ago as regards a pre-emptive strike will be noted, but will she say that although that would be undesirable as we see things at this minute, it certainly is not ruled out if circumstances that were to arise later appeared to justify it?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, I think the House knows us well enough to know that we rule out nothing that is necessary, but we hope that deterrent forces will have a deterrent effect.
§ Lord RichardMy Lords, one reads in the papers various stories that the Iraqi forces are in fact withdrawing from their position on the border. Are they? Can the Minister help us? Have the Government any information on that matter?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, it is quite difficult to tell. Certainly there have been movements of Iraqi forces; but it will be several days before we can be confident not only of this withdrawal but that there will not be a further approach. That is the very reason we have to continue to be watchful. The matter is unpredictable. There have been some movements, but not all in the same direction.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, if it becomes appropriate for Allied forces now in the Gulf to stand down, will Her Majesty's Government, in conjunction with the other allies, consider setting up a permanent framework of command and control so that the discussions now taking place, perhaps on the brink of action, will not be necessary if the tension rises again?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, this may seem an attractive feature. However, our experience is that each situation varies and while one might have overall command of control arrangements, they might not be appropriate in other circumstances any more than the rule of engagement for one particular situation would necessarily be the same for the next.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, I wholeheartedly support the action which the Government have taken. But what is to stop Saddam from forcing our troops to maintain a presence there indefinitely by moves of various kinds on the other side of the frontier which, as the noble Baroness has just reminded us, are completely unpredictable? He can continue to offer provocation which leads us to suppose that aggression against Kuwait might happen in the near future, thus forcing us—and the Americans as well—to keep troops in Kuwait for the indefinite future. What is the way out of that dilemma?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for his wholehearted support, which is most welcome. Our forces, along with other forces in the coalition, will remain in the Gulf for as long as they are required to underpin regional security. We are aware that this could go on for some time; but as long as Iraq continues to 901 have a large number of troops in the border area and around Basra, I believe that in order to maintain peace we must play our full role.
§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords, can I press the noble Baroness on one small point in her reply? As I understand it, she said that the question of the command structure was under negotiation. As I recall it, in what is known as the Gulf war, the command structure was quite clear: it was a NATO command structure and all the commands which came through the NATO network were clearly understood by our forces who were integrated into the NATO system. Is it now the case, as she appeared to be implying, that our forces could be outside that structure in any way?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, the noble Lord is reading far too much into what I thought I phrased extremely carefully when I said that command and control are being discussed in Kuwait at this present time. I did not refer to NATO for the simple reason that that may well be the way in which this is approached. However, as it has not yet been decided, I cannot tell the noble Lord, and I, for one, am not prepared to speculate.