EC Directives: Implementation (Hansard, 30 November 1994)

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the President of the Board of Trade last year commissioned an efficiency scrutiny into the implementation and enforcement of EC law in the United Kingdom. The efficiency scrutiny found little evidence that the United Kingdom deliberately over-implements directives emanating from Brussels.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, while I mildly agree with my noble friend's Answer, does he understand that there is considerable anxiety that government departments in this country, in pursuance of that well-known love of charity for which they are famous, unnecessarily add to the burdens which the Commission intended to impose both by directives and regulations?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, of course I would be glad and, indeed, grateful for even half of such gratification from my noble friend. However, I have several points to make in response. First, EC law is very often implemented by means of existing national legislation. The efficiency scrutiny report revealed that existing UK legislation often has much wider scope and tougher penalties than that of other member states. All EC proposals which may impose a burden are subject to what is termed a "compliance cost assessment" at the earliest possible stage of the EC scrutiny process. But I can say that we are pressing for the Commission to improve its business impact assessment system in order to ensure that all proposals for EC legislation are effectively assessed and, more than that, justified before they are tabled.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that, although his noble friend may be "mildly" satisfied with the Answer given, there are many other people who will not be at all satisfied? Is the noble Earl also aware that some people believe that many good businesses have gone to the wall, including many abattoirs—indeed, I understand that 250 of them have done so—as a result of government embellishment 594 of EC directives and over-embellishment by British officials? Will the noble Earl comment on that and also on the book by Mr. Booker and Mr. North entitled The Mad Officials?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the noble Lord may take that line, but I can certainly reassure him and say, again, that it is not our policy to over-embellish EC law; indeed, we are encouraging Community efforts to reduce EC directives. When implementing EC directives, it is certainly our policy to ensure that only the minimum necessary burdens are imposed upon businesses in this country.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, when my noble friend says that they do not over-embellish, is he really saying that, to some extent, they do embellish such directives? If one examines the meaning of words, that is the only message that I could get from my noble friend's official reply.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I thought that I had made it clear in my original reply that it is not our policy to over-embellish EC law.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, can the Minister remember an Answer on Europe which did satisfy the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon?

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
I cannot help that if the answers are bad!

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I think I have to say that I cannot.

§ Lord Weatherill
My Lords, is there any truth in the rumour that while it is legal to order a pint of beer and a pint of cider it will no longer be legal to order a pint of shandy? Is there any truth in this directive?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, it would be somewhat invidious to examine individually each of the over 230 directives which have come out of Europe since 1st January 1992; not only would it be invidious, it might be rather time consuming.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, can my noble friend say how one embellishes a directive?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I think we are going into semantics here. What I am really trying to say is that we are determined to ensure that, when implementing directives, businesses have the least necessary burdens imposed upon them.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that a perusal of the European Community's official journal reveals that there is no diminution in the flood of regulations emanating from Brussels? Will the noble Earl give the House an undertaking that the explanatory notes issued by ministries in regard to proposed legislation are actually read by the Ministers who sign them?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I believe that all Ministers read everything that is put in front of them before they put their signature at the bottom.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, will my noble friend return to his original Answer? He referred to 595 over-embellishment; surely over-embellishment includes embellishment? The question is whether embellishment takes place.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, as I said before, the whole point as regards embellishment is that we do not over-embellish EC law. We are saying that we try to impose the least possible restrictions upon businesses in the United Kingdom. I hope that what I have already said is clear.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that to speak in terms of efficiency scrutiny in the context of this Government's policy is a massive contradiction in terms? When he refers to embellishment, is he aware that embellishment means a dressing up, a distortion, just as much as other things?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I was under a different impression. I thought that embellishment meant the beautification and the beautifying thereof.

§ Lord Shepherd
My Lords, I should like to put a useful suggestion, perhaps to the noble Lord the Leader of the House. I think there has been genuine anxiety about the way in which legislation that we bring forward through Parliament in response to directives or otherwise from another place seems to be more stringent than in the rest of the Community. Could we not consider sending the proposed legislation to one of our committees which could examine it before it is taken on the Floor of the House, and consider how other members of the Community have themselves implemented it to see whether there is at least a genuine playing field between the various countries in the way domestic legislation has been changed as a consequence of directives from the European Community?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, again I go back to the point that I hoped I had made clear; that all EC proposals which may impose a burden are subjected to compliance cost assessment at the earliest possible stage in order to see that there is no unnecessary imposition. That is in the interest of all those whom it affects. Deregulation is an equally important matter, not only in this country. It is important to make quite sure that deregulation occurs in Europe as much as it does here and that it is clearly understood and embodied in policy thinking.

§ Lord Rippon of Hexham
My Lords, whatever the advantages or disadvantages of compliance cost assessment, the Government's attempts to produce a policy, or the meaning of embellishment, I hope the Minister clearly understands that on all sides of the House—I find myself with rather strange allies today—there are grave anxieties of the sort expressed by my noble friend Lord Peyton. Can we have a clear assurance 596 that the Government will in no circumstances permit an imposition on the British people of something which is not required under a directive?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, we have constantly this in mind; we are continually looking at it. The answer to my noble friend's question is yes.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, perhaps my noble friend will examine the arrangements for comparing the construction put upon regulations and directives by other countries with that carried out here.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I understand the point my noble friend is making.