Northern Ireland: Integrated Schools (Hansard, 2 November 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Baroness Denton of Wakefield)
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government remain committed to facilitating the development of integrated schools in response to viable proposals from parents. To date, all proposals received have been approved. Such schools receive 100 per cent. recurrent funding immediately and 100 per cent. capital grants when viability is confirmed.

§ Lord Holme of Cheltenham
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. I welcome the meeting that her honourable friend Mr. Ancram had yesterday with the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education. Does she accept that there are long-term anxieties about the future of integrated education in Northern Ireland? The first is that, despite all the efforts of the past decade, only 1 per cent. of children in Northern Ireland—that is about 4,000 children—go to integrated schools. The second is that there is a threshold of 60 pupils which must be surmounted before a new school can be started. Of course, there must be a threshold, but that makes it difficult to get new schools going.
Does the Minister agree that in the long term, if there is the prospect of accommodation in Northern Ireland between the nationalist and unionist communities, it will be extremely important that those who believe in non-sectarianism are not squeezed out? For that reason, the Government's commitment to the long-term growth of integrated education in Northern Ireland is particularly important.

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, it is fair that we ask that proposals for integrated schools should be viable. Not to do so would be unfair to other education bodies. It may be hard work to reach the threshold of 60 pupils but we look for viability over a longer period. The good news is that no one has failed to achieve that. The fact that a school is not integrated does not necessarily mean that it is sectarian. We should recognise not only the high standing of education in Northern Ireland but also the high standing of some schools there.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, can the Minister say what is the total budget for education in Northern Ireland and what percentage of it is presently spent on integrated schools? Does she agree that, bearing in mind the small percentage of children who presently attend integrated schools, we need to go 835 forward with care and tact as regards the disposition of public money? We must bear in mind that on legitimate grounds a large number of parents prefer denominational education for their children.

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, the noble Lord is right. Our policy must reflect the wishes of the parents, and that is what we aim to do. I shall let the noble Lord have the total education budget. As he appreciates, it is my honourable friend's area. Since we started working with the bodies dealing with integrated education some £15.5 million has been spent. I repeat that when we have received a proposal and it has worked up to viability we have been able to accept it.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, the Minister says that she cannot reply about education because it is someone else's responsibility. Does she agree that Questions at the Dispatch Box are answered on behalf of the whole Government and, provided that my noble friend's supplementary question is within the scope of the original Question, she should be able to answer it?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I believe that I have previously caused the noble Lord anxiety in this area. I apologise for having done so again. It is not my subject; therefore, the figure is not in my head. I do not have the figure and it would be wrong to make it up. However, I shall let the noble Lord have it.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, as a first step in the long-term programme, will my noble friend indicate that the programme of mutual understanding within the existing framework is being continued?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, my noble friend, with his knowledge of the work in the Province, rightly draws attention to the sterling work in education for mutual understanding, which happens throughout schools. The commitment in Northern Ireland to working together begins in schools and, I am delighted to say, goes through whole new communities and groups.