Newly Qualified Drivers (Hansard, 26 May 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish)
My Lords, we are considering the introduction of a scheme to require these drivers to re-take the driving test if they commit serious traffic offences.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer, but of course it is quite inadequate. Is he aware that although only 10 per cent. of licence holders are between the ages of 17 and 21 they are responsible for 20 per cent. of all road accidents and 25 per cent. of all road deaths? Is he not aware of the great benefits achieved in Northern Ireland and Australia where drivers carry either "R" for restricted or "P" for provisional plates for a period after they are granted their licence?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I am sorry that my Answer did not totally satisfy my noble friend. She is right to point out that statistics show that drivers under 21 account for a disproportionate number of accidents on the roads. We are studying the results of the experiment in Northern Ireland in which a P-plate is carried on the car of somebody who has recently passed the test to see whether there are benefits. Obviously if there are benefits we shall consider applying the scheme more widely. In the meantime, we have to await a proper evaluation of the effect of the plate on the accident rate of drivers under 21.

§ Lord Merlyn-Rees
My Lords, is the Minister not aware that the scheme in Northern Ireland is not an experiment? It has been going on for years. Surely the Department of Transport could evaluate that scheme. It is a very good idea. As you are driving you can see that the driver in front has only recently passed the test, so you are wary.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, perhaps I should not have said that the scheme in Northern Ireland was an experiment. However, we are evaluating that scheme. The noble Lord, Lord Merlyn-Rees, points out the obvious advantage of the scheme. It alerts other drivers to the fact that the driver in front, or perhaps even behind, is newly qualified. However, it is the effect 850 on the driver himself or herself of carrying that plate on the car that interests us most. That: is why we are continuing the evaluation.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is it not a very dangerous rule that someone can obtain a full licence without ever having driven on a motorway and then promptly go out and drive on the motorway as much as he wants? Is that not one of the main causes of the large numbers of accidents involving young drivers?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I understand what my noble friend is saying, but the statistics show that the problem on motorways is not great. In fact, accidents occur largely on roads other than motorways. The other problem about including motorway driving in the driving test is that so many people and so many driving test centres are situated quite a distance from motorways. Therefore, the practicalities of conducting part of the test on a motorway are considerable.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, in his reply the noble Lord suggested that the Government are in the process of evaluating what has happened in Northern Ireland. May we have the assurance that the Government will not have to call in yet another firm of management accountants to make up their mind for them and that the Government can make up their own mind without any extra cost being incurred?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, that Ministers in the Department of Transport will make up their own minds.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, the House will regard that as something of a change. Will the Minister indicate how long the consideration of re-taking the driving test when serious offences are committed— which seems to me to be an eminently sensible idea —is likely to take before the Government can come forward with specific proposals?
I fully support the idea put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, concerning motorway driving. Does the Minister agree that driving on a motorway requires driving of a quite different quality from driving on other roads? Will he therefore not close his mind to the idea that was put forward, which I thought he tended to do in answering that question? Will he give an undertaking to the House that this is a matter to which he and his colleagues will give further consideration?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, to answer the second part of the noble Lord's question, obviously we think all the time about ways in which the driving test might be improved. However, the problem about the motorway aspect is the one that I mentioned. Approximately 50 per cent of driving test centres are a very long way from motorways. Indeed, in the constituency which I had the honour to represent in the other place it would have been impossible to impose on people taking the test in that area a section on motorway driving.
851 In relation to the first part of the question concerning re-testing, there are some problems with regard to the legal position. We are looking into the kind of situations in which re-testing would be triggered and whether secondary legislation would be required or whether primary legislation would be necessary.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, will the Minister take it from me that in suggesting that motorway testing should be undertaken I am in no way advocating the idea so dear to the heart of the Government that more motorways should be built so that more driving tests can be applied?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I never gave that possibility a thought. But I shall take it away and think about it again.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, is the Minister aware that when we debated the last major traffic Act in this House we had facts and figures from the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland about the great improvement due to the R-plates which even at that time seemed conclusive? Will he assure us that the use of P-plates, which statistics show have proved so successful in Australia, will be considered in any study?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, yes, of course I can assure my noble friend that we shall look carefully at the studies taking place in Northern Ireland to see whether such use reduces the accident rate among those young people. We have a number of issues in mind. We intend to impose a separate theory test in the course of the driving test as from 1st July 1996.

§ Lord Swinfen
My Lords, courts already have the power to order someone who has been banned from driving for a short period to retake the test before he can obtain a licence again. Does the Minister agree that that power should be applied far more often than at present to drivers of all ages?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, my noble friend is quite right that the courts already have the right to order someone to retake the test at the end of that person's banned period. However, the proposals that we are discussing would be of a more automatic nature, perhaps linked to the points system or the nature of the offences. The situation would be different from the current position in which it is up to the discretion of the courts to decide whether to impose re-testing.

§ Viscount Cross
My Lords, I support my noble friend Lady Gardner of Parkes. Is the Minister aware that in France the plating system for newly qualified drivers has been in existence for many years, together with the figure "90" placed on the back of cars, indicating a limit of 90 kilometres per hour? Does he agree that the teaching of driving in areas off the road is to be encouraged because the length of the course is less, the cost is less and congestion on the roads is removed for the general public?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I am not entirely sure whether I can go along with the latter part 852 of my noble friend's question. The real problem is that people have to be taught to drive within the environment and situations in which they will have to take the test, and drive thereafter if successful.
On the first part of my noble friend's question, I shall draw the attention of my honourable friend Mr. Robert Key, the Minister for Roads and Traffic in the department, to the various points made by your Lordships on the question of probationary plates.