Northern Ireland (Hansard, 25 May 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Baroness Denton of Wakefield)
My Lords, yes, without question.

§ The Marquess of Salisbury
My Lords, I am grateful for that Answer from the noble Baroness. Is it not wrong that we should allow a foreign power to interfere with our internal affairs, not only in Northern Ireland but also in the United Kingdom as a whole, especially one which harbours terrorists operating in this country? Furthermore, is it not time to cease trying to appease the IRA and the Eire Government, for that policy seems only to encourage them to think that Her Majesty's Government will in due course accede to their demands?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am delighted to reaffirm for my noble friend that this Government will not negotiate with anyone who does not renounce violence permanently. It is important that change for Northern Ireland can come only with the consent of the majority of people who live there. We have to take account of all the relevant relationships, those within Northern Ireland, the island of Ireland and between the British and Irish Governments.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, does the noble Baroness; accept that there are differing shades of opinion on her first reply? The definition of the word "integral" might well be considered. Some of us consider that it was an integral part of the island of Ireland before it was an integral part of Britain, and that opens up an argument for which we do not have time at Question Time However, there are strong opinions as to whether the Six Counties of the North-East of Ireland are an integral part of the United Kingdom or an integral part of the other 26 counties.

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, the noble Lord rightly points to the complications of the issue. I have to reaffirm that any solution will come with the consent of the majority.

§ Lord Holme of Cheltenham
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that the key requirement now is to get the two communities of Northern Ireland working together in a much greater measure of self-government? Does she further agree that the role that integrated education can play in bringing the two communities together in Northern Ireland is considerable? In that respect, perhaps I may ask a specific question of which I have given her notice. Will the decision be made soon on the Fermanagh Integrated College? It awaits the approval of her colleague, Mr. Michael Ancram. It is an integrated college where the funds, teachers and pupilss 759 are available; it is due to open in September; yet it still awaits the Minister's approval. Will that be forthcoming shortly?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right that while the political talks continue it is important that we continue to work, too, on the means by which people can live together peacefully. Having had notice of his question, I am pleased to tell the noble Lord that the period for objections ended in mid-April and the decision on the Fermanagh Integrated School will be announced very shortly indeed.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, perhaps I may—

§ Lord Marlesford
My Lords, perhaps I may—

§ Lord Wakeham
My Lords, perhaps the House could hear my noble friend Lord Marlesford, followed by the noble Lord, Lord Mason of Barnsley.

§ Lord Marlesford
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that to many people in this country who, like myself, have no understanding of the Irish question, the Government have in recent months given a disturbing impression of negotiating with the IRA?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am sorry that that is the impression my noble friend has. There could be nothing further from the truth.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, I am sure that the House will be pleased to hear the noble Baroness's initial reply to the Question. Is she aware that in order to lessen the tension in the Province and to curb the activities of the Protestant paramilitaries, it is absolutely essential that she continues to stress that Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom and will remain so until the majority of the people in the Province decree otherwise—and that is the Northern Ireland people and no one else, including the Republic of Ireland?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, the noble Lord well understands the situation and has faced it himself. Perhaps I can reassure him by quoting the words of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. At the Blackpool Conference he said: For us the Union and all it means is immensely important in all parts of the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland. The Union has the decisive support of all those who live there". I agree with the noble Lord that it is absolutely essential that the violence of all parties is contained. Lord Moran: My Lords, in the Joint Declaration the Government said that they had no selfish economic interest in Northern Ireland. May I ask the Minister whether there are any other parts of the United Kingdom in which the Government have no selfish economic interest? Further, what is the significance of the word "selfish" used in the Joint Declaration?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, the solution to the problems of Northern Ireland, as the noble Lord, Lord Mason, said, should come from the 760 consent of the majority in Northern Ireland. If I read the implications of the noble Lord's question correctly, the Prime Minister has made it clear that no nation could be held irrevocably in the Union against its will.

§ Viscount Brookeborough
My Lords, is the Minister aware that no recent opinion poll has given more than 14.7 per cent. of the whole population, Protestant and Catholic, being in favour of a united Ireland? Therefore, does she agree that continued talk about the wishes of the people of Northern Ireland does nothing but cause more unease in the community?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am sorry that I cannot entirely agree with my noble friend. We have no hidden agenda at all. We have no options or possibilities for a final outcome. However, there are two basic tests: solutions must be workable and, crucially, they must attract widespread support throughout the community.