HL Deb 04 May 1994 vol 554 cc1125-7

3.1 p.m.

Lord Stallard

asked Her Majesty's Government:

How many units of sheltered housing accommodation are currently under construction by (a) local authorities, (b) housing associations and (c) private sector developers.

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, during 1993, work started on 1,290 units of sheltered housing accommodation in England. Some 160 of those are being built for local authorities, 830 for housing associations and 300 for the private sector.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that reply. Does he agree that that is an abysmal record in housing for people who are waiting for sheltered accommodation? Does he share with me the commitment outlined in the community care White Paper? In it the Government quite clearly committed themselves to supporting the idea of sheltered and very sheltered housing for the elderly as an important part of community care. The record that he has just outlined seems to me far from meeting that commitment. Can he try to persuade the Government to make a definitive, up-to-date statement on the Government's policy for the future on all aspects of sheltered housing?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, as at 1st April 1993 there were 486,000 sheltered housing units in England. Research conducted for the department by Ernst & Young management consultants shows that there is sufficient sheltered housing to meet current needs for elderly people. Indeed, the research shows some evidence of over-provision of ordinary sheltered housing in each region of England. Over the 10 years to 1993, compared with a rise of 9 per cent. in the total housing stock, there has been an increase of 45 per cent. in the number of units of sheltered housing available. Within that increase, the number of sheltered units provided by local authorities and housing associations has increased by 36 per cent.

Lord Skelmersdale

Yes, my Lords. But does my noble friend on the Front Bench agree that, although there is a surplus of housing in this country, it is not in the places where people want to live? Can he therefore confine his last supplementary answer to rather more detail and say where there is a gap in provision for sheltered housing in places where people want to live?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, the research undertaken by Ernst & Young has shown that there has been considerable change in recent years in the requirements of elderly people for sheltered housing. More elderly people now wish to remain in their existing houses which are then modified to provide sheltered accommodation.

Lord Ewing of Kirkford

My Lords, the noble Viscount replies for the Government. Why does he only give the figures for England? Is there no problem of sheltered housing in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland? Does he take the view that the hardy folk from those parts of the United Kingdom do not need that kind of attention?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, I shall pass on the comments of the noble Lord to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Scotland.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, will the noble Viscount explain the circumstances in which the Government have found it necessary to call in consultants on this matter? Are we to assume that the Government are without their own resources for knowing what is happening? Do they not have their own projections? Do they always have to go for consultants? How much are they paying them, anyway?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, to answer the first part of the question, the Ernst & Young research was commissioned by the Department of the Environment in order to take stock of existing provision of housing for elderly people. The findings from the research will inform future policy. That demonstrates the Government's interest and commitment to housing for elderly people. As to the cost of the research, I cannot answer the noble Lord.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham

My Lords, will the noble Viscount confirm that there are growing numbers of mentally and physically frail older people over 85 who need sheltered housing? Is it not the case that the number of new sheltered housing starts in the socially rented sector is less than one-third of that of a decade ago? Is he aware that the research commissioned last summer by the Joseph Rowntree Trust stated: New sheltered and very sheltered housing is badly needed. This is to meet the needs of the increasing numbers of physically and mentally frail people over 85"? How does the Minister reconcile that statement with the research from his consultants?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, the research for the department shows a national and regional shortfall in very sheltered housing—that is, accommodation for the most frail elderly people who require not just a resident warden but care assistants.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, I understand that the cost of the research was in the region of £3 million. Can the noble Viscount say how many units of very sheltered accommodation could have been built for that money?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, I am afraid that I do not have an answer to the noble Countess's question.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham

My Lords, will the noble Viscount perhaps answer my question? Will he tell us, in the light of care in the community policies, the Government's estimate of the need for sheltered and very sheltered housing units, so that the elderly may remain in the community?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, as I said earlier, present research shows that there is a surplus of sheltered accommodation and that the only shortfall is in very sheltered housing. The research also indicates that it may be possible to upgrade substantially some of the earlier stock—which is based on the concept of communal use—more in the direction of very sheltered housing.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, will the noble Viscount accept that there is a wide gap between the Government's position and statistics on this issue, and the understanding of those who are closely involved with the provision of sheltered accommodation? Does he agree that there is therefore a need for up-to-date information from the Government about their exact policy? There is a great deal of doubt about the Government's policy on sheltered and very sheltered accommodation. Has it not been proven by the exchanges in the House today that there is a need for an urgent statement from the Government about their future policy on sheltered housing?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, I return to the research undertaken by Ernst & Young, which will be available in full in the coming months. I suggest that noble Lords await that report. Then we can come back to this matter.

Baroness Faithfull

My Lords, will my noble friend accept that, if there are vacancies, it is because people cannot afford to go into sheltered housing, even though they may want to do so? I know of many people who need sheltered accommodation but cannot afford it.

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, that is a matter which I shall refer to my right honourable friend.

Earl Russell

My Lords, will the Minister tell the House how the Government select consultants to do such work? Is it by lowest competitive tender and, if so, do they get what they pay for?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, I understand that the choice of consultants is done by competitive tender.