HL Deb 21 March 1994 vol 553 cc493-5

2.44 p.m.

Lord Bruce of Donington asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is the latest date by which the preliminary draft budget for 1995 for each of the European Community's institutions will be available for scrutiny by both Houses of Parliament and whether they will give particulars of how further scrutiny can be accomplished within a reasonable time before the draft budget for 1995 is established by the Council of Ministers.

The Parliamentary Under-secretary of State, Department of Employment (Lord Henley)

My Lords, the Government will continue to ensure that all available documentation is deposited for scrutiny as soon as possible after it is received by the United Kingdom's permanent representative in Brussels. The Government regret that it is not yet possible to indicate by what dates this documentation will be available.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the Minister aware that his Answer is thoroughly unsatisfactory? Is he further aware that the British Parliament normally has the right to question expenditure before it is incurred or even before it is authorised? Will he take steps to ensure that the Committee of Permanent Representatives, on which the Commission also has a seat, does not so arrange events that it will not be possible for the documents to be made available to Parliament on time?

Lord Henley

My Lords, like the noble Lord, I would very much hope that the documents can be made available as soon as is possible. I can only provide the noble Lord with the assurance that we shall continue to do all that we can to ensure that that documentation is made available as soon as is possible and that the noble Lord, who was given assurances last year, will receive copies of the overview as soon as is practical after publication.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that his Answer will disappoint a great many of us? Surely Her Majesty's Government are entitled to insist on the draft budget being brought forward in time for proper discussion in both Houses of this Parliament and to indicate that unless that is done, it will not be accepted?

Lord Henley

My Lords, Article 203 of the treaty sets out the exact dates as to when the various parts of the preliminary draft budget and the draft budget shall be made available and when they shall go through their various different stages. Those dates are quite late. We hope that we shall have the preliminary draft budget by the beginning or middle of June. As I said, we hope to have the overview available earlier and I have given an assurance that that will be made available to the House in due course. However, I accept that time is short and that that creates some difficulties in relation to parliamentary scrutiny. But the deadlines have existed for a number of years and I believe that we can live with them.

Lord Barnett

My Lords, while I do not always agree with my noble friend Lord Bruce of Donington on European matters, he is absolutely right on this. I hope that the Minister and his officials will ensure that the information comes before both Houses quickly, otherwise that expenditure will continue at a pace and in areas with which neither House of Parliament would agree. I think that my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, are absolutely right in seeking to ensure that the Government press for the documentation to be brought before us rather sooner than has been the case in the past.

Lord Henley

My Lords, the noble Lord is correct, as is his noble friend Lord Bruce. That is exactly why I gave an assurance—and I shall keep it—that we shall do all that we possibly can to ensure that all the documentation is made available to this Parliament so that it can exercise adequate scrutiny as early as possible.

Lord Annan

My Lords, if the information is to be received before June, does that mean that the article will have to be amended?

Lord Henley

My Lords, no, I did not say that. What I said was that the actual date by which it has to be received is some time much later. I think that it is 1st September, but I refer the noble Lord to the treaty and to Article 203. We try to get the documentation much earlier and the Commission normally produces it much earlier. We hope to get the preliminary draft budget by early to mid-June.

Lord Renton

My Lords, bearing in mind that the British taxpayer has to contribute towards Britain's contribution to the European budget, can my noble friend say as to which financial year in Europe the British taxpayer has to pay up in terms of our system of financial years?

Lord Henley

My Lords, that is a rather complicated question and I am not sure whether I can give my noble friend a safe and satisfactory answer to it. We are talking about the preliminary draft budget or the budget for 1995, which will come into effect as from 1st January next year, so I presume that we are talking about moneys that this Parliament would vote in either this or the next financial year.

Lord Eatwell

My Lords, following the reference by the noble Lord, Lord Renton, to the obligations of the British taxpayer, will the Minister confirm that if Norway, Sweden and Austria are admitted to the European Union they will be net contributors to the budget? Will he further confirm that the result would be a fall in Britain's contribution? Will he therefore explain why the British Government are so determined to prevent the widening of the Union, thus costing the British taxpayer millions of pounds?

Lord Henley

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are committed to widening the Union. As to whether those four countries will join is another matter. There is also the question of the own resources decision and agreement by all 12 countries as to when that comes into effect, and therefore at what level the budget can be set. Whether that would lead to an increase or decrease in the United Kingdom's net contribution would depend upon a number of factors, and it would not necessarily follow that our net contribution would fall because a number of other net contributors had joined.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, in view of the Minister's statement that he will do his best to see that the documents are received as soon as possible, does he not agree that we are now at the high table of the European Community; that we are now in there with great powers under Maastricht? Why cannot we show a little guts in the matter and insist upon what we want rather than lie down under whatever is possible? Further, will the Minister give the House an assurance that, notwithstanding the proposals for own resources at the Edinburgh conference, it would be possible for the Council to set a budget which is in total lower than that specified in the Treaty of Edinburgh?

Lord Henley

My Lords, the noble Lord is correct. Until all 12 countries have ratified the own resources decision taken at Edinburgh, no budget can be set that is greater than the existing own resources decision.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, that was not the question.