Parent's Charter for Scotland (Hansard, 28 June 1994)

§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Fraser of Carmyllie)
My Lords, no copies of the Parent's Charter for Scotland, nor any other similar document, have been sent to households in Scotland unless directly requested.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble and learned friend, and I congratulate my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Scotland upon saving the taxpayers this expense. Will the Government ensure that in future the Department for Education, which deals with England, takes special care in briefing the media on these occasions, because press reports stated that the charter was to be delivered to every household in the whole 655 country? That was misleading to people living in Scotland, who nonetheless now seem stoically to have accepted not receiving the document.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I must congratulate my noble friend on his unflagging campaign to ensure that Whitehall departments appreciate that there are different administrations in different parts of the country and we do not always enjoy being described as part of the English framework. It is particularly unfortunate at a time when the BBC is probably becoming more sensitive to the issue that there are Whitehall departments that have still not appreciated the difference.
However, I should say to my noble friend that, while a revised charter has been issued for England, the revised charter for Scotland, which was first launched in 1991, is not due until the autumn of this year.

§ Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove
My Lords, the House should be grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, for raising this matter again. Although none of us likes wasted expenditure, it is rather important that parents should be more aware of the existence of the possibilities afforded by the Parent's Charter. What efforts have been made by the Government to make it known without the glossy magazines and folders? For instance, to give one example, in view of its importance to parents in Scotland, could something such as the power of parents to ask for seatbelts to be put in coaches, which, as the Minister knows, is highly topical there at the moment, be publicised in the Parent's Charter?

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I should say that the Secretary of State for Scotland shares the view of the Secretary of State for Education that it is important that everyone should know what education is available, whether they be parents, grandparents, children or prospective employers. We do indeed want those same people in Scotland to know as much about what is available in education as is the case this side of the Border. It would appear, and it is encouraging, that in Scotland there is a greater awareness of the various charters. We hope to make the revised charters more readily available in the autumn. But what we can look forward to with some anticipation is that some of the opposition that the Secretary of State for Education experienced in England with regard to the distribution is unlikely to be replicated in Scotland.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is the Minister able to say whether this important document is available in Wales as well as in England and later in Scotland? If it is, is it available in Welsh, and who pays for it?

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I hope that the noble Lord noted how carefully I ensured when I made reference to the Parent's Charter issued by the Secretary of State for Education that it was only with regard to England. I cannot tell the noble Lord what the state of the charter is in Wales, but I have no doubt that parents and others in Wales will be equally keen to find out the detail of what is being proposed.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there is a consensus that parents should take a greater interest in their children's education? Is he also aware that a recent survey suggests that in England the native English are much less concerned than are the members of all but one of the immigrant groups? I do not know what the position is in Scotland, but perhaps we could have some Scots in England to set a good example of this interest.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
Certainly, my Lords, whether or not it is a myth that is fairly perpetuated. I think it is the view that education in Scotland is generally accorded higher significance than is sometimes the case south of the Border. If there are other groups in England who feel that it is equally important, we should be very happy to explain to them just how important we believe it to be.

§ Lord Ewing of Kirkford
My Lords, is the Minister aware that all the Scots in England are usually managers of the best football teams? On the matter of the Parent's Charter, will the noble Lord agree that it would be wiser to wait until the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Bill has received assent before rewriting the Parent's Charter? Under the Bill that we are about to discuss, different parents will have different rights. The denominational sector of education in Scotland will have the right to choose a school in another local authority's area, whereas the non-denominational sector will not have that right; and therefore a standard parent's charter will not meet that particular problem.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, with regard to football managers, while that may be the case in England I would have thought that just at the moment the English could make the same claim in Ireland. I certainly do not agree with the noble Lord that we are right to hold off a revision of the Parent's Charter until after the local government Bill has successfully completed its passage through this House—with any luck, by about 11 o'clock this evening. There are important rights and important information in such a charter. They should be updated from the position in 1991. I do not believe that it would be appropriate to wait until 1996.

§ Baroness White
My Lords, is the Minister aware that yesterday in Hansard there were at least three references to "Magna Charta", which I pointed out to Hansard is not the correct way of referring to it even today?

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I certainly thought that it was "Magna' Carta", but I am not aware of the references to which the noble Baroness draws our attention.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, in connection with the interesting question that was raised by my noble friend Lord Beloff, of course the principal educational officer in England is a Scot, Professor Sutherland.

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, I think that we have just lured him back to be principal of Edinburgh University.