MV "Derbyshire": Investigation of Loss (Hansard, 28 June 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish)
My Lords, the Marine Accident Investigation Branch is studying the video tape of wreckage and the results of the side scan sonar search which have been provided by the International Transport Workers' Federation. If, in the opinion of the chief inspector, they give rise to new and important evidence which warrants the re-opening of the formal investigation, he will advise the Secretary of State accordingly.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, is the Minister aware that that Answer is rather more positive than the one given by the Secretary of State, who appeared to reject the idea of a further public inquiry? Is the Minister prepared to assist the further inquiries that need to be undertaken in order to ensure that the valuable work carried out by the ITWF, at a cost to itself of £400,000, can be pursued? That seems to be an essential condition precedent to any further action that it undertakes.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, it would not be sensible at this stage to consider whether government funds ought to be provided for a further search in the area. However, the position will be clearer when the material collected so far has been examined by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch and the Chief Inspector of Marine Accidents has advised the Secretary of State as to the significance of the evidence brought to him.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that in the first debate in Parliament on the issue, initiated by me 13 years ago soon after the sudden and mysterious loss of this vessel in a typhoon, my noble friend Lord Trefgarne, the Minister responsible at the time, provided as much information as had by then been discovered? Should not every effort be made to recover or photograph any clues from the wreck now that it has been discovered?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I know of my noble friend's long interest in the issue. However, I do not think that there is any possibility of recovering anything from that depth. We are talking about 4.5 kilometres down, which is extremely deep. Undoubtedly, modern scanning techniques and under-water photography can give some clue as to what is happening down below, but it is not nearly as effective as being able to look at the pieces on the surface. We are examining the evidence, the experts are evaluating it and they will give us their advice we hope in the not-too-distant future.

§ Lord Murray of Epping Forest
My Lords, I wish to express my appreciation of the Minister's not unhelpful response to the proposal. Perhaps I may request him to extend that attitude towards developing within the maritime industry a more positive attitude towards safety at sea, possibly comparable with that in the aviation industry. The contrast between the safety culture in the aviation industry and the total absence of what the noble Lord, Lord Carver, called the safety culture in the maritime section is very apparent. May we hope for further movements in that direction after his initiative?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, obviously at this time we are examining the recommendations of the report of the group chaired by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Donaldson. He draws our attention to various aspects of safety, including flag state control and port state control. We are actively considering the recommendations that he makes.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, as one who periodically asks Questions in the House, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that there have been Questions in your Lordships' House and another place which have not received the definitive Answer which the Minister gave today? Is he also aware that if it were not for the expenditure of a considerable sum of money by the International Transport Workers Federation, nothing more would have been found out? Can the Minister give some form of undertaking that if substantial sums are required to indicate what caused this terrible tragedy and give comfort to the relatives of the 44 people who died on the ship, the Government will do their best as a matter of urgency?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I understand and appreciate the point made by the noble Lord about the feelings of the relatives. No doubt he and others know that the formal investigation in January 1989 reported that the "Derbyshire" had probably been overwhelmed by the forces of nature in typhoon "Orchid". The situation is that new material has appeared, but whether it casts any light on the reasons for the ship's sinking, other than the typhoon, remains something which the experts will have to examine. Having seen some of the material myself, I can assure noble Lords that one requires to be an expert in order to try to interpret the results of the scanning.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the families of the 44 who died have felt not only a great sense of loss but disquiet about the fact that a number of allegations seem to have been made by professionals of catastrophic structural failure in vessels of that character and class? Is he further aware that something like 20 bulk carriers a year are lost in unexplained circumstances? Will the Minister ensure that the further investigations that are being undertaken will be carried out with a great deal of urgency, not only for the sake of the families, though that is important, but also for other seafarers who sail at present in bulk carriers ?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that we are treating this very seriously indeed. The bulk carriers that have been lost in recent years have all been in the age group of 15 to 20 years, whereas the "Derbyshire" was only four years old when she was lost and had only done one year of service. Of the other five vessels in her class, one also foundered but that was as a result of dragging her anchor and going aground, I think, in Bantry Bay, or southern Ireland, and breaking up on the rocks. Therefore I do not think that the two in that class are comparable.