§ Lord Archer of Weston-Super-Mare asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they will propose to the United Nations that certain engineering spare parts should be exempt from UN sanctions in order that they can be supplied to Iraqi Kurdistan to enable its factories to function again and aid the economy of the Kurdish people.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)My Lords, humanitarian supplies are exempted from the UN sanctions regime on Iraq. This can be extended to spares for plants producing humanitarian goods. Applications for the import of any such consignments should be made to the Sanctions Committee in New York through United Nations agencies or international non-governmental organisations. Representatives of the Kurdish people in Iraq support and recognise the continuing need to uphold sanctions on Iraq.
§ Lord Archer of Weston-Super-MareMy Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Does she accept that if we allow these spare parts to reach Iraqi Kurdistan it will lessen the financial burden on the international community? Is this another example of UN bureaucratic red tape, and if it is can the Minister get out her scissors and cut it to shreds?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, the burden on the international community could be reduced, but we are not prepared to see that happen at the expense of rigorous enforcement of the sanctions regime. Sanctions must apply to the whole of Iraq and we must ensure that all supplies are for humanitarian use only. But wherever I find red tape I can assure my noble friend that I take great pleasure in shredding it in the most effective way I can devise.
§ LordEnnalsMy Lords, perhaps I may encourage the Minister in her statement about shredding red tape by asking whether she will accept two submissions? First, when the UN resolutions were passed with our full support and during all the action that followed, it was never the intention of Her Majesty's Government or of the international community to do damage to the Kurdish people, who have suffered more than anyone else from what has been done by Saddam Hussein. Secondly, does she accept that the British Government have a rather special position because in their wisdom, 1578 which I warmly support, they have shown an understanding of certain Kurdish needs? That wisdom should be continued in the cutting of red tape. Does she not accept that we have a special responsibility to do something?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, I am very sympathetic, as the noble Lord knows, towards the cutting of red tape wherever I find it, but I think we have a problem here which we should face up to. One cannot lift sanctions from one part of a country. It is not our intention to damage the Kurds. In fact, I do not believe there is a single European country that has done more than we have to try to help the Kurds. We are in a special position. However, the UN reviewed the sanctions only a month ago: it was not able to conclude that conditions existed for lifting sanctions. That was the only possible outcome. My noble friend and the noble Lord want certain spare parts to be allowed to reach to a cement factory and various other plants. If it can be proved that those parts can be used only for humanitarian purposes, we must go on pressing for that. Certainly, such efforts will have my help.
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, is it not the case, even from what the Minister said, that recent history has shown that the Kurds have suffered more than anyone else at the hands of Saddam Hussein? They are suffering most under the present sanctions and have a terribly low quality of life. The noble Lord, Lord Archer, is correct. This is a special case. Can it not be treated as a special case and cannot the parts involved be moved there as quickly as possible in the interests of everyone concerned?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, I understand the frustration on this issue. However, it is clear that while we can work very hard at any initiative that is clearly designated for humanitarian purposes we cannot have sanctions lifted simply on the Kurdish area. It would not work because UN sanctions apply throughout Iraq. While we recognise the harsh conditions and the fact that the Kurds are heavily dependent on foreign aid, we have to find another way of solving this rather vexed problem.
§ Lord Clinton-DavisMy Lords, can the Minister give the House some indication of what is happening about the still fragile cease-fire as far as Kurdistan is concerned because any question of the supply of engineering parts and so on must be predicated on the resolution of that problem? Can the Minister say whether things look as though they are settling down? Is there now some real hope that the cease-fire will emerge into a full and lasting peace?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, I get very nervous about predicting such things. No sooner does one make a prediction and say that the situation this week is better than when we discussed it a week ago than something else happens as a result of Saddam Hussein's twisted mind to make the situation worse for the people of northern Iraq and indeed the Shia Moslems in the marshlands as well. The situation is better but there are still sporadic outbreaks of fighting and 1579 bombing. We have to maintain a very careful approach to working with the Iraqi national congress and with all the Kurdish people with whom we have contact and so try to make sure that the pressure is alleviated as much as possible. But there is no easy solution to the evils of this man.
§ Lord Archer of Weston-Super-MareMy Lords, does my noble friend the Minister realise that as regards the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, Saddam's forces are still outside Erbil and Dahok and that the only reason they do not come over the border is that of British and American aircraft fly over Kurdish land and give the Kurds confidence? Can the Minister confirm that those flights will continue so ensuring that Saddam is not able to come over the border?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyYes, my Lords.