HL Deb 21 July 1994 vol 557 cc359-61

3.7 p.m.

Lord Molloy asked Her Majesty's Government:

What consultations they have had since 1st January 1994 with the British Medical Association, Unison, the Health Visitors Association and the Royal College of Nursing concerning the state of the National Health Service.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Baroness Cumberlege)

My Lords, Ministers and officials continue to have a great deal of contact with those organisations on a wide range of issues.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. What she says is acknowledged by those organisations. They are grateful to the department for that contact. By and large, those organisations cover both the main body and the nerve centre of our health service. The BMA is world famous. The Royal College of Nursing has 305,000 nurses as members. Those bodies are concerned about the reduction in numbers of nursing students and the role of nurses in child protection. Unison covers ambulance staff, kitchen staff and others.

Noble Lords

Order!

Lord Molloy

My Lords, those bodies appreciate the department contacting them, but may I have the noble Baroness's assurance that the contact will continue and that their views will be taken seriously by her department?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, I give that assurance.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, will the noble Baroness state why the Government seem to be so reluctant to publicise the duties of patients when asking for night visits from doctors? The Minister must be aware that the matter is causing great problems. Since the 1990 contracts, there has been a huge increase in night visits, in particular for those aged between 20 and 35 years for some strange reason.

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, yes, the Government are well aware of some of the problems which exist for doctors who have to work at night We have just launched a publicity campaign for general practices entitled "Be Nice, Think Twice", so that people think before they call out their doctor. We are conscious that some doctors find such night visits stressful; and in fact some of the visits are not necessary.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, has the noble Baroness seen the report in today's Evening Standard that five professors of world renown, all experts in molecular genetics, have resigned, and that four others are considering their position as a result of the NHS reforms? What have the Government to say about that disturbing state of affairs?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, I have just read the article. I have not had time to look at the individual cases but I know from experience that people often change jobs for a variety of reasons, including family reasons. Scientists with international reputations are few in number. They work all over the world and it is therefore not surprising that two should choose to go abroad. Conversely, many choose to come to the United Kingdom from abroad and the net result is that we attract marginally more than we export. The five scientists who are featured in the story, including the three who are continuing to work in this country, stress that they were going to excellent jobs in which they would be able to carry out work in a spirit of collaboration.

Lord Carter

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether in their consultations the Government have asked for the views of the various organisations on the remarks by the chairman of the BMA council on 4th July? He referred to what is happening to the NHS as "the new alien creed" and described the reformed NHS as "a national lottery".

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, we are aware that the BMA council does not always support the government line. Indeed, it opposed the introduction of the NHS in 1948. Nevertheless, we are keen to work with the council, and my right honourable friend the Secretary of State always has an open door.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, does the noble Baroness appreciate that the associations that I mentioned are now in contact with the department and they wish to make it clear that they see two major problems? One is administrative and one is medical. They would like to discuss these matters independently of each other because they are problems within the National Health Service but different forms of problem—administrative and medical.

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, the National Health Service is going from strength to strength. When one looks at the number of patients treated—and it was Robin Cook who said that the test of the reforms would be the number of patients who are treated —we now see that 116 are treated for every 100 who were treated before the reforms on an annual basis. Trusts out-perform other hospitals, and we are also strengthening primary care through GP fund-holding. Waiting times are going down—before the reforms there were 170,000 people waiting for treatment over a year, today there are 74,000.

Lord Stoddard of Swindon

My Lords, if, as the noble Baroness says, the National Health Service is going from strength to strength, why is it that within the service itself there is such disaffection among all grades of staff?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, I refute that comment. I travel around the National Health Service a great deal. I make it a point to go out at least once during every week. When I talk to staff, there are some clearly who are disaffected; one would expect that in a staff of over a million people. But I have to say that there are others who rejoice in the reforms and who are finding GP fund-holding extremely professionally rewarding. Those in trust hospitals have never had the freedoms that they can exercise today and find that through them they are giving better patient care.

Lord Carr of Hadley

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, although I do not travel round as she does, in my area where I use the National Health Service I find staff morale extremely high, with staff tickled to death at the new changes?

Baroness Cumberlege

Yes, my Lords.