HL Deb 13 July 1994 vol 556 cc1890-5

8.7 p.m.

Baroness Denton of Wakefield rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 24th May be approved.

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, the main purpose of the order is to rationalise or update certain existing legislation falling to the responsibility of the Department of Agriculture for Northern Ireland. Noble Lords will be pleased, I suspect, that I do not intend to go through the order article by article, but I believe it would be helpful to the House if I remark on significant aspects.

Article 4 will allow the Department of Agriculture to provide grant aid to a wide range of proposals and development plans aimed at breathing new life into many of the deprived rural areas in Northern Ireland. The department has already promoted and financed successful pilot projects under the Northern Ireland Agriculture Act 1949, but the wording of that Act is limited in relation to rural development. The powers under this new article will enable the programme to expand to its full potential. We see the work in rural development as one of the main planks of government policy.

Article 16 of the order also provides new enabling powers to allow the Department of Agriculture to introduce charges for the use of the only lock on the Northern Ireland side of the recently reconstructed Shannon-Erne waterway, and for the use of effluent disposal facilities provided by the department for cruisers on the wider Lough Erne navigation system. This development of the waterway is something of which people on both sides of the Border can be very proud.

Turning to the other main aspects of the order, Articles 10 to 15 will amend existing legislation on the welfare of animals to provide greater protection to animals. I am pleased to assure the House of that. In particular, the order will allow legislation to be made on the welfare of animals at market, on ensuring that stockmen are given instruction and guidance on welfare codes of practice and also on livery establishments or other such premises where horses are kept as part of a business and have been outside legislation up until now.

Articles 19 to 23 make a number of amendments to the Diseases of Animals (Northern Ireland) Order 1981 —again, I am sure noble Lords will be pleased to know —to strengthen the powers available to control disease in line with existing Great Britain legislation. The main practical effect of these is to enable legislation to be made dealing with situations where disease is suspected of being present and to make specific provision for inspectors to take samples or test animals. Other technical amendments are intended to give greater flexibility in applying existing provisions and in setting or amending rates of compensation for diseased animals. I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 24th May be approved.—(Baroness Denton of Wakefield.)

Lord Morris of Castle Morris

My Lords, this is much better. May I say straight away that we are happy to welcome this order, which may well do something to improve the state of affairs in rural areas. It makes some necessary and timely adjustments to the distribution of grants and the collection of levies.

I have just two questions. If the noble Baroness can answer them across the Dispatch Box—well. If she would prefer to consider them and write to me, I would be equally content.

Article 3 imposes a general duty on the department to achieve a reasonable balance in discharging its functions in relation to land between these four considerations: efficiency; social interest; conservation; and public enjoyment. Good. But has this not been a duty on the department in times past? Has it not always been obliged to consider the natural beauty and amenity of the countryside, for example; and if not, why not? Such good practice has long been a staple of legislation in England, Scotland and Wales. Why is Northern Ireland so out of line?

Much in Article 3 reads oddly. Can the noble Baroness explain, for example, the clause: so far as is consistent with the proper and efficient discharge of those functions"? It seems to me otiose, redundant, pointless and slightly beyond comprehension. I would be grateful for enlightenment.

My second question relates to a deeper suspicion. When this order was considered by the third standing committee on statutory instruments in another place the Minister of State was asked about safeguards for the welfare of animals in transportation in Article 10. This, I am sure we would all agree, is a very sensitive political issue at this time. The Minister replied: The Government remain committed to ensuring the best possible welfare standards for animals in transit". Then he went on to describe some quite irrelevant activity about some Greek presidency compromise proposal at a meeting of the Agriculture Council. Will the noble Baroness be so kind as to explain precisely how Article 10 increases the safeguards on the welfare of animals in transit? I am sure that she will be easily able to satisfy my genuine curiosity, and my welcome for this order will then be all the richer and deeper.

Lord Holme of Cheltenham

My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Baroness for her introduction of this order. It is a thoroughly practical order. It was not opposed in the Commons standing committee, and we have no intention of opposing it tonight. The fact that it is practical should not, however, blind us to the fact that it deals with a very important subject; namely, in the first part of it, rural development.

The proportion of the Northern Irish workforce who are employed in agriculture is of course three times the proportion in GB. So any emphasis on rural development is extremely important. What will it mean for the agricultural population in Northern Ireland? One hopes that rural development will be good for the people who were in farming. But that is a question on which I should be interested to hear from the noble Baroness when she responds.

I ask her this specifically. Article 3—quite rightly, in my view—recognises that environmental considerations must be balanced against economic interests. But I would value an elucidation of what "a reasonable balance" means. Are civil servants to be given any greater guidance than those words, "a reasonable balance", when we have important trade-offs between the environment and economic development?

Perhaps I may say just one word on the facilities on the Shannon-Erne Waterway. It is an occasion to record again what a triumph of cross-Border initiative this whole waterway is. It has cost about £30 million, and has been funded predominantly by the European Union and the International Fund for Ireland. I just wonder what implications it has on the course of the current talks in which the Government are engaged behind the scenes on the prospect for other practical cross-Border agencies that can get the two parts of the island working together in a non-contentious way on matters that are as much in their joint interest as this is.

Finally, I should like to say how much we on these Benches welcome the greater protection that is given to animals in the animal welfare measures in the later part of the order.

Lord Blease

My Lords, I welcome this particular order. It is designed to help and assist one of the major parts of the community in Northern Ireland, the farming community. The noble Baroness is playing a leading part. I sincerely thank her for her kind words earlier on.

I wish to make two points. While in the order there are a number of recommendations and a number of objectives set, I find it difficult to understand—indeed, I am backed up by some authorities into which I do not want to go at this late hour, but in particular the Ulster Farmers' Union and the president of the Veterinary Association—why both of these orders are backed only by codes of conduct. In our export and importation of animals, there is no form of law laid down that prohibits or seeks to prevent imports into Northern Ireland of diseased animals. There is no legislation laid down that prevents the pollution of the rivers or sets objectives for the environment. I feel that the codes of practice should acquire some greater strengthening by some form of legislation. Given those few remarks, I certainly welcome the order.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, seeing my noble friend, it is like being back in the old times regarding agriculture. Many was the time when I had to present such orders in my noble friend's place. I have to say that I did so at considerably greater length. My noble friend has been admirably concise tonight.

Perhaps I may ask her three or four questions on a number of the articles. First, on Article 3, where we have already had a look at the duty of the department to balance the interests, in looking at paragraph (a) the promotion and maintenance of a stable and efficient agricultural industry", I hope that my noble friend and her department will do everything that they can—that they will shout, speak, eat and drink for Northern Ireland—at all the exhibitions of Northern Irish food and at the world food exhibitions in different countries, not least at SIAL—the world exhibition that is to be held in Paris later this autumn. I hope that my noble friend and her department will make the usual very strong impression on behalf of the Northern Ireland agricultural industry on a world scale in Paris.

Secondly, I am delighted to see in Article 4 that grants are to be continued. I hope that my noble friend will continue with the great motto: "Act fast while grants last", which was the saying of the farmers heading for Dundonald House. I am delighted that they will find the grants and will find my noble friend taking very good care. Indeed, the noble Baroness opposite seems to recall the happiness that was expressed by the fanners. I seem to recall that there was not a great deal of happiness expressed in my department.

With regard to Article 8, I notice a change in name from "Livestock Marketing Commission" to "Livestock and Meat Commission". I am sure that careful consideration and thought as well as enormous consultation went into that change. But I hope that my noble friend understands that the word "marketing" concentrates the minds of farmers-producers and all those involved in the industry that we are considering this evening.

My noble friend also mentioned Article 16—the Erne navigation charges. If any major change is to be made in the charges, perhaps she will be able to let me know at a later stage. I am intrigued by the term "drainage" in that article. In Irish terms one should never use one word when two will do and I understand that the technical term is "watercourse management", particularly that involving the Ballyconnell canal.

Finally, I support most strongly everything that my noble friend said with regard to Articles 22 and 23 on the examination and prevention of diseases and the work of the first class inspectors in the Department of Agriculture. The three major diseases—infectious bovine rhinotracheitis, Newcastle disease in poultry and Aujeszky's disease in pigs—were very rigorously controlled in Northern Ireland. We just have to look at bovine spongiform encephalopathy and examine the damage done by that disease to the beef industry, which spills over into Northern Ireland. Also, if the excellent inspectors in the Department of Agriculture do not take a very firm line on all those diseases and on all diseases as they arrive, the first class status of Northern Ireland's animal health will be jeopardised.

Finally, I ask my noble friend to check whether all the watercourse management activities carried out in the Caledon demesne in the Blackwater drainage scheme and the remedial work that was promised in my time and promised since 1991–92 have been completed. I hope that she can keep an eye on them.

I wish this order well. Perhaps my noble friend will wish to write to me. Certainly, I do not expect to hear from her this evening.

Baroness Denton of Wakefield

My Lords, I thank everyone for their contribution to this order. Even in very brief speeches many queries were raised. I give the assurance that if I cannot answer them now—I shall try to be brief—I shall certainly write to noble Lords. However, I know that Northern Ireland at the moment is taking precedence over Scotland and that gives me no pain.

In reply to the noble Lord, Lord Holme, the Shannon Canal came slowly and steadily but was opened this year. Usage is already showing up well. I believe with him that the more examples there are of the successes of working together to the benefit of the communities on both sides, the more we can hope to achieve.

I assure the noble Lord, Lord Blease, that we are greatly concerned about the environment. Codes of practice certainly apply in Article 10; but there is legislation—fines—in other orders. We have recently seen an unfortunate example of the pollution of rivers. But I was delighted in that case to hear that the person responsible behaved very ethically and the matter was quickly reported so that it could be dealt with.

With regard to Article 3—the tightrope article—the noble Lord, Lord Morris, was absolutely right to say that the department will now legally be required to do what it has in effect been doing for some time, following the commitment given by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in December 1987 that the spirit of the provision in Section 17 of the Agriculture Act 1986 would be observed in Northern Ireland. But to ensure balance in the economic development of the agriculture industry is a matter of judgment. As the noble Lord, Lord Holme, said, it is one of our most important industries, it is of considerable size and we must be aware of the issues.

In answering on the welfare of livestock, my honourable friend moved quickly to the national scene, as it was so topical at the time that the order went through in the other place. In the new requirements this particular article will ensure that stockmen, who are responsible for marketing moves, are made aware of welfare codes and are given appropriate guidance and instructions on the provisions. That will help protect welfare.

The changes in the regeneration of rural areas must be supportive of the fanners; and, I may add, the farmers' wives who play a considerable role in rural development. We aim to do that. The name of the Livestock Marketing Commission was changed at its request. Let me say to my noble friend Lord Lyell that I understand why he is so much missed in Northern Ireland. I shall endeavour to promote the interests of Northern Ireland food—which is wonderful —around this country and others. It is one of our greatest assets; but I have to confess that I doubt whether I can drink in that job with his capacity or style.

Let me also confirm that the grants are there. It would be nice if farmers would also concentrate on getting their applications right first time so that we can pay them more quickly.

Given that my noble friend was responsible for the Blackwater scheme, I am sure that his wishes were respected. I shall check and write to him. I can assure him that it has nothing whatever to do with this order. Having said that, I commend the order to the House.

On Question, Motion agreed to.