Car Boot Sales (Hansard, 26 January 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Arran)
My Lords, we have no plans to introduce any changes in the regulation of car boot sales. Such activities are enjoyed by millions of shoppers each weekend and provide a valuable source of fund raising to many charities and voluntary organisations.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his reply. While these boot sales have been useful and enjoyable family outings, and any regulation should not be oppressive, is there evidence of a serious increase in dangerous electrical goods and stolen goods being offered? Have the Government heard of cases of professional traders taking part, disguising themselves with children, dogs and picnic baskets, in order to avoid licences and tax?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, if people do have evidence that shoddy or dangerous goods are being sold at car boot sales, they should inform the local authority trading standards officer who has the authority to deal with these particular cases. Certainly, sellers at car boot sales can be held to be personally liable if the goods they sell cause injury.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, there may well be a case for car boot sales to be abolished. Is the Minister aware that they do threaten the legal and well-controlled markets; that officials of the trading standards office have warned about the sale of unsafe electrical goods; that car boot sales are outlets for petty thieves and that on many large estates in the provinces people are aware that, by request, youngsters are stealing car radios, videos and cassettes which are going to the car boot sales? Is the Minister aware that car boot sales create disturbance wherever they are established? Does he agree, therefore, that it must not be ruled out that they can be carried on as freely as the Minister suggests?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I have to say to the noble Lord that there is scant evidence of that happening. The most important factor about this is that the local authorities have a very wide range of powers under planning on environmental protection legislation or through transport and local government, with which 962 to deal with all the matters that the noble Lord believes are happening. However, there is very little evidence that they are.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that a person innocently buying stolen goods at a car boot sale does not get the protection of the market overt rule and that the maxim caveat emptor therefore applies? Does my noble friend agree that it should be made widely known to people operating car boot sales that there is that risk?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I believe that my noble friend has made a good point. But if there is to be any more control over car boot sales it would best come from self-regulation and a code of practice within the industry itself.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that a few months ago my garden shed was broken into and some gardening equipment was stolen? I sent for the police and the detective who came suggested that, contrary to what the Minister said, I should go round the car boot sales on Sunday morning when I would probably be able to buy it back.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, that is a serious accusation. I am sorry that that happened to the noble Lord. He should pass his complaint to the local authority.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, should not the noble Lord, Lord Dean, have been advised that, as my noble friend Lord Renton pointed out, there is no good title and it would therefore be unnecessary for him to buy back that equipment—he could just take it back?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, we should listen carefully to my noble and learned friend.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware—

§ Lord Whaddon
My Lords—

Noble Lords
Order!

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, who is saying order?

Noble Lords
Order, order!

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, there seems to be some point of order that I do not know about. Is the noble Earl aware that nobody wants to be heavy handed in regulating this sort of voluntary-based activity, but has he any evidence that much of the liquor and cigarettes that come into this country at low cost are smuggled in illegally and find their outlets in these car boot sales? If he has evidence, what is he going to do about it?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I have to repeat that we certainly do not have evidence of that. Furthermore, neither the police nor the Home Office have called for any tighter controls.

§ Lord Whaddon
My Lords, has the noble Earl noticed the great clutter of illegal advertisements which flood across the highways in connection with car boot sales? Is he aware that the local authorities are plainly not doing their job of regulating that illegal advertising? What are the Government going to do about it?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, we are at all times exhorting the local authorities to carry out their responsibilities in that direction.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that car boot sales give a great deal of pleasure to people and that ever so many of us who go to them hope to pick up a masterpiece for a pound?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I think that my noble friend speaks for the majority of your Lordships.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, that may be so, but is the noble Earl aware that he is wrong on two counts? First, when he says that there is no evidence that there is illegal trading at car boot sales, would he care to read Mr. Playle's words in the Trading Standards Review, the official journal of trading standards officers, where he will find a mountain of evidence that illegal goods are being traded at car boot sales? Is he further aware that his assertion that local authorities have the powers to deal with car boot sales is also wrong because local authorities can seek injunctions against car boot sales only on a day when a franchise market is already being held within a radius of six and two-thirds of a mile from that sale? Therefore, if one keeps outside that boundary, one is all right. Even then, however, that local authority power is to be removed under the Deregulation and Contracting Out Bill.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the extent to which market franchise rights can be used to control car boot sales has been greatly exaggerated since most car boot sales are held on a Sunday when franchise rights are least effective. As the noble Lord pointed out, the Deregulation and Contracting Out Bill contains a clause that proposes the abolition of those somewhat archaic rights. As regards evidence of the theft or stealing to which the noble Lord referred, we do not have any concrete evidence that that is happening since most of those who participate in car boot sales are law-abiding citizens who are there to help good causes and their fellow citizens in the local area.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, perhaps I may quote from the Trading Standards Review, the official journal of the Institute of Trading Standards Administration, which is reported as stating that Havering's storerooms are, close to bursting point due to the quantity of goods that have been seized", because they are fraudulent or dangerous. Is that not evidence?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, although the noble Lord points that out, we do not have considerable evidence of it. I say again that a very important fact is that neither the police nor the Home Office have called for any tighter controls.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, despite the report in the journal from which the noble Lord, Lord Williams, has just quoted, is my noble friend aware that people generally would be delighted if we could remove a few of the existing regulations instead of adding to them for this or any other reason, flimsy as it is?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the answer is that we have to keep a very careful eye all the time on the regulations that give power to local authorities. That must be seen to be happening, because we do not want car boot sales to have a bad name.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, is not the Minister giving the House the impression that he and his department are not aware of many of the nefarious activities that take place at car boot sales? Will he give the House an assurance now that there will be official inquiries and that he will be prepared to make a report?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, we are conducting inquiries all the time among local authorities to ensure that the regulations are being carried out in a seemly and proper manner.