Swiss Haulage Ban (Hansard, 24 February 1994)

§ The Minister of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Strathclyde)
My Lords, there will be no immediate impact: the ban is not due to come into force for another 10 years. We will be considering the full implications of the decision with our European Community partners.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that Answer. Of course, I was aware that the ban would be phased in over a 10-year period. However, does the noble Lord agree that that will give us a breathing space to gear ourselves up to what could be a serious disruption of road traffic between here and Italy? Further, does it not put pressure on the need to have the Channel Tunnel rail link working more effectively— and sooner than otherwise would be the case—and also the West Coast route to the manufacturing industry of the North-West and Scotland?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the noble Lord has asked some interesting questions. However, they are not entirely relevant to the decision taken by the Swiss. British hauliers have traditionally used the French route in order to get to Italy rather than the Swiss route. That is because there is an existing limit of 28 tonnes on lorries in Switzerland and British hauliers tend to use rather bigger-sized lorries.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the Swiss have shown their usual good sense in staying out of the European Union and are thereby able to protect their magnificent scenery against the depredation of foreign juggernauts, which we are not allowed to do?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the Swiss have just had a referendum on the issue. Indeed, some years ago the United Kingdom also held a referendum on whether or not we should be members of the Community. At that time, the British people voted to do so.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does that not show how democratic the Swiss people are, and how they have the opportunity to have an influence on their Government? Despite the noble Lord's remarks, would it not have been very much better if the people of this country had had the opportunity to have a referendum on Maastricht? Perhaps then they could have instructed the Government on how to behave, and how to ensure that the people of this country are governed democratically?

Lord Strathclycle
My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, is being rather self-indulgent by raising, yet again, the question of a Maastricht referendum. Each country has its own 728 constitution and way of dealing with the issue: we have ours and the Swiss have theirs. Basically, I believe that we do things pretty well.

§ Lord Monson
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that it is most refreshing to see a small group of individuals successfully stand up to and defeat the big battalions? Can he give the House an assurance that, under no circumstances, will Her Majesty's Government play any part in trying to bully or otherwise intimidate the Swiss into caving in to the demands that the EC will surely make upon them?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, we are not in the business of bullying. However, we shall certainly be discussing the issue with our European partners.

§ Lord Aldington
My Lords, will my noble friend inform the House that the referendum by the Swiss was not on Maastricht but on the European economic area, which is something that noble Lords opposite, and some of the Europhobes, quite liked? Therefore, is it not irrelevant to the matter that we are now discussing?

§ Lord Strathclyde
Yes, my Lords; the referendum was specifically about lorries travelling through Switzerland.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, I am not in the least worried if we bully the Swiss if they are wrong, although I do not think that we should go as far as massing troops on their frontiers; but that is another matter. Surely this is nothing to do with the European Union. Is it not a GATT matter? Can the noble Lord remind the House as to whether or not the Swiss are members of GATT? I have a feeling that they are not. Therefore, those of us who are members could take retaliatory measures against the Swiss if we feel that the ban is damaging to free trade in Europe. Can the noble Lord enlighten us in that respect?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the Swiss are indeed members of GATT. However, they are not members of the UN. The Swiss proposal appears to be compatible with the terms of GATT as it will apply equally to the haulage of both domestic and foreign goods.