HL Deb 10 February 1994 vol 551 cc1691-3

3.10 p.m.

Lord Harris of Greenwich asked Her Majesty's Government:

What action they have taken regarding allegations of improper conduct by the Development Board for Rural Wales concerning their house allocation procedures and other matters.

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, the Public Accounts Committee, at a hearing on 24th January, examined the Permanent Secretary of the Welsh Office and the Chief Executive of the Development Board for Rural Wales about matters raised in the report by the Comptroller and Auditor General on the board's 1992–93 annual accounts. The Public Accounts Committee will be reporting in due course on the results of their inquiry. We would not wish to anticipate or pre-empt that report.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that reply. Does he agree that at the meeting of the Public Accounts Committee to which he has referred, the Permanent Secretary of the Welsh Office stated that the behaviour of that organisation had been wholly unsatisfactory and wholly indefensible? In the light of that statement, in the light of the impropriety that it indicates so far as concerns the work of the Welsh Development Agency, and the fact that police inquiries are now taking place into Health Promotion Wales, what action is the Secretary of State for Wales taking to deal with this constant flow of evidence that there has been impropriety in quangos in Wales?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Wales is preparing a compliance review which has been commissioned from consultants, and an efficiency scrutiny by the Welsh Office, which are currently being reported on. Those reports are expected to make recommendations to ensure that adequate monitoring systems and effective controls exist over the board's procedures, management, administration and financial control.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, during the past couple of years we have had a series of critical reports about that quango and the Welsh Development Agency. In the reports the deficiencies strongly suggest that the quango and the Welsh Development Agency have been operating as though they were above the law. Does the Welsh Office accept that there has been any failure on its part to ensure that those quangos are accountable to the Welsh Office and to the public; or is the Welsh Office above criticism?

Turning to the future, being a small territorial department, does the Welsh Office lack the necessary expertise to devise ways and means to ensure that the quangos are properly accountable to it and the Welsh public?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, it is to ensure such accountability that my right honourable friend has commissioned the two reports to which I have already referred. While I am sure that we all deplore fraud and the misuse of public funds, we should also remember the great benefit that has been brought to the Principality by the two boards.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, on a purely technical point, will the noble Viscount be kind enough to explain to the House what the appointment of outside consultants has to do with the Question on the Order Paper? That relates to improper conduct.

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, in answer to the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Greenwich, I stated that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Wales has appointed a firm of consultants to report on those matters in order to ensure that such malpractice does not occur again.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that what is involved is the position of the accounting officers of the organisations? Is it not wholly unsatisfactory that with regard to those quangos it has been established in one case after another that there has been total impropriety in the running of the organisations?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, it is the responsibility of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Wales to ensure that such things do not occur. I am quite sure that once the compliance review has been reported on and the efficiency scrutiny acted upon, these matters can be brought to an end.

Lord Jenkins of Hillhead

My Lords, is this not a matter of efficiency but of decency?

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, before making any further comments, I believe that we should await the PAC report.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, will the noble Viscount answer my second supplementary question? Does the Welsh Office have the necessary expertise to ensure ways and means of securing accountability of the quangos both to itself and to the members of the Welsh public? Otherwise, there will be no confidence in the regime of the quangos.

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, I am quite sure that the Welsh Office has that ability.